965B Transmission failure - Page 4 - The Combine Forum

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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-27-2016, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Little late on this thread... Sorry ... We had a 965C transmission fail at high speed as well. Upon disassembly we found much the same issues. One of the two planetary assemblies looked like it got hot and seized the planet gear. This shattered the gear and broke the main case. Most of the issues with these transmission was software or clutch pack related. We rebuilt lots of 865B and C series transmission and differential steering units.

In answer to your question I think high speed road travel is part of the issue but not the whole... Lube pressure in these transmission is low... Meaning RPM is key to correct lubrication of transmission...

The only other thing to watch out for is over filling the transmission. It will heat and cause internal damage...
Thanks 101, I really appreciate input from someone like yourself that knows these trannies from having been inside of many units over the years. The low oil pressure problem below 1800 rpm is
interesting, since that engine is designed to pull at least 300 rpm lower than that, and most guys think 1800 on the engine is max. So what, the transmission needs a larger flow pump?

A few clarifications on my transmission. It was a 2008 965B with 4400 hours. It had a major update done in the trans at about 1800 hrs. At 4000 hours when I bought it we pulled all the oils, filters, screens and opened up all the places where you can get access to look for cuttings or debris on the bottom of components. The hyd reservoir was really clean and there was a small amount of small pieces of clutch material in the bottom of the trans housing. The Agco tech working with me thought it was a normal amount and since no steel was present, we considered it a good sign. We have no knowledge of how long it ran on the present oil and filters either. We cut the filters and again found a small amount of similar material. He checked with Agco and they said it looked normal and everything should be good. We completed the oil change with all new filters and did a season of seeding putting on under 200 hours.
After this I again pulled the transmission filter and cut it open to inspect the filter paper. In a season of seeding there was absolutely nothing in the filter paper, telling me that there was nothing going on in the transmission at that time. I seeded one more crop after that and loved the tractor and how it pulled the drill at about 1650 rpm. I have one 1/4 that is quite hilly and shifted down one gear and increased the rpm to 1850. Impressive torque!

It was the following spring that the transmission problem happened at 20 mph on the road. At that speed the rpm must be up over 1800 so leaning back to the ground speed being the problem??? When the transmission was rebuilt last spring after failing, there was a bulletin calling for drilling out oil supply holes to a bigger size somewhere in the planetary area. So even after one level of updates to this trans, they are still admitting they do not have enough oil supply to the planets. At $50,000 a pop, they better get it right soon. This is beginning to sound like a class action may be needed. Especially since they accept no responsibility and will not admit that they have a problem at high speed. I have tried to suggest that they advise owners to impose a speed limit for the benefit of all, but they just will not talk to me now. I still say it is a great tractor, but nobody can afford problems like this. Thanks for all the input.

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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 06:48 PM
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So the best things to do are keep the rpm up over 1800, and don't run it to fast down the road? Are there any other updates to ask dealer about?

21st Century, Half a million dollar or better tractor, and it sounds like tips for a machine built in the 70s.


Cat or AGCO, or somebody needs to get their $Hit together.... This should be unacceptable today....

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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 07:03 PM
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21st Century, Half a million dollar or better tractor, and it sounds like tips for a machine built in the 70s.


Cat or AGCO, or somebody needs to get their $Hit together.... This should be unacceptable today....
Yep, 100% unacceptable. Perhaps this will nudge Agco to finally put a CVT in there high horse power units.
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post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 11:33 PM
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Are these the same tranny that goes in a challenger 855. Is there any years that didn't have this issue
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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Are these the same tranny that goes in a challenger 855. Is there any years that didn't have this issue
I think between the 8xx and 9xx the difference is just in the back end of the case and how the power flows out into the differential on the 8xx and into the articulating hinge in the 9xx. There are at least 2 major update levels in a 2008 model and as recent as 2015 they are doing version 2 of that update. Still low oil flow problems to planetaries at high speed roading. Part of the fix is drilling oil passages bigger to get more flow and cooling.

Does anyone know if these updates have been designed in from the factory at some age or model of these TA22 transmissions.

In a post by Christian Herenboek ? in early 2016 he states that Versatile had a delay in the release of their 4WD line because of transmission problems (Cat TA22) so this problem still may exist.
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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 06:34 PM
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I have heard that the 865A do not have the transmission problems the Bs and Cs have had. Is that true? And why would that be?
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post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-19-2016, 10:15 PM
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The transmission went out of my 2008 965B at 400 hours. I bought it with 200 demo hours on it, so it was still under warranty. I could never get a straight answer on why it failed. I suspected a misajusted switch on the clutch pedal wasn't letting the clutch packs fully engage. The dealer had tried twice to set the clutch properly and I was never satisfied. Looks to me like AGCO cheapened the switch from the one Caterpillar used on the original 765's. I now have 2200 hours with no more issues.
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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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This post is in response to a PM but was too long to fit the format and since it sort of applies to the original thread I am posting it here. Thank you for following up on my post. It is interesting what the feedback is coming from dealers which without doubt is an "official" position from the manufacturer. First of all I want to clarify that when I speak of planetary failure, I am talking about planetary gears in the transmission that are part of the wet clutch packs that create the ratio combinations for the 16 forward speeds. I understand that Agco lubricates their differentials and final drive planetaries from transmission oil, and then scavenges that oil and filters it before returning it to the transmission. I like what Versatile is doing in keeping their gear boxes separate. Isolation of a failure to one component is always a good thing that I questioned when I was learning the Agco/Challenger system. However failures in the Agco system seem to be speed related- fast road speed for long steady periods. Not unlike similar failures in Cat 966 loader axles used in late 70's Big Buds. They are strong and heavy built but designed for intermittent cyclical operations and would not take sustained continuous loading. My knowledge of the TA22 is that MOST of the failures occur at road speed. It seems to me that when certain planetary gear sets are run at high speed in the TA22, lack of lubrication or overheating, or a combination of both, becomes the catalyst that eventually ends in catastrophic failure, to an otherwise normal and good transmission. I did extensive checking into signs of problems in my transmission within 400 hours of the failure. Oil analysis, filter cutting and analysis, consulting with Agco on our findings. All checked out very good with very little in the way of debris or cuttings found. After another season of running(200 hrs) I cut that filter again and found absolutely nothing in the filter. I believe at that point there was nothing going on in the transmission. It was only 10-15 hours later, while driving down the hiway for 100 miles that it locked up. That to me is clear evidence that the problem was the prolonged speed and resulting heat and lack of lubrication. As to your comment about running the engine speed higher to ?? keep oil pressure higher. I always enjoyed the performance and power of the C18 at 1650- 1700 rpm. I think that engine was designed to run there and several of my friends that are lifetime Finning employees and very familiar with these engines are part of that belief. I do not lug engines and I do not like to run engines at the governor either but to find a smooth and sweet spot where everything runs nice. I think the TA22 was the answer to the kind of torque a C18 puts out at 4.5 mph, but not at 20+ mph. There have been a few more posts on my thread in the last 2 years, some of them being part of my opinion on the whole issue. I have spent a lot of time reading and keeping this problem in mind and what I see is lots of these tractors reaching 6-7,000 hours of scraper work. If that does not kill a transmission, farming certainly will not. But in the scraper application, long high speed runs are not usually common, although moving could cause that condition. Maybe this will always remain a mystery but I have my founded beliefs!
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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 06:52 PM
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It's odd because with our 865's we road with loaded drills all the time at 100% power as long as far as 20 miles at a time. Which you would think would be a lot harder than 100 empty. No trouble yet knock on wood.
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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 08:35 AM
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I have been wondering how the E series machines have been working. Wondering if they changed transmission configuration when they went to SISU power? has anyone heard of any failures in the new units?

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