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Maintenance costs of claas

47K views 145 replies 39 participants last post by  Don Boles 
#1 ·
I'm thinking about jumping ship with Deere and trying claas. Seems the S680's are getting to be more and more money to get back into shape every year. We demoed a 760 this fall and it blew us away how our S680 couldn't even come close to keeping up in 60 bu/ac canola. I'm worried about maintenance and the cost of parts vs the Deere. It's obviously easy to get parts for a Deere, and easy to get it fixed if it's a bigger problem than I would care to deal with. Will a Claas become a nightmare in certain situations?
 
#3 ·
I'd imagine a claas would be a nightmare in certain situations but I think all colours can be. Dealer makes the biggest difference. Ours has been no more costly to maintain then our new holland cx with similar hours and cheaper then the CR with similar hours after running the 780 for a year. It has about 800 threshing hours on it. A claas has more moving parts so we expect a little more maintainance but everything seems to be better and heavier built.
 
#5 ·
Where are you from farmerfrank? Proximity to a good dealer is always nice. I am an hour away from mine and stock some parts here on farm.

The only thing I had an issue with was replacing a hydraulic hose through the feeder house and it was after hours. My unit was different than every other one on the lot so we could not steal one either. Once we realized Brandon Bearing had all the stuff to make the hoses I was going again. The guy there said more stuff is using those fittings that Claas uses all the time and they had a great selection on-hand. I had thought about making up a few spare hoses to have here as well.

As far as cost of parts I doubt there is much difference between brands. There is more stuff going on in a hybrid Claas than a JD or CaseIH but the parts are high quality and should last really well. I put an enormous amount of really tough crop through my 780 this past fall and had very little issues. Those conditions would have really messed up a red or green machine.

So while you might wait for the odd part no other brand would be any different, and the productive capacity of the Claas combine will erase any amount of down-time experienced from lack of parts easy. This isn't a fringe combine anymore, it's mainstream and trending up. I'd bail on the Deere.:wink:
 
#6 ·
So while you might wait for the odd part no other brand would be any different, and the productive capacity of the Claas combine will erase any amount of down-time experienced from lack of parts easy. This isn't a fringe combine anymore, it's mainstream and trending up. I'd bail on the Deere.:wink:
If your comparing wait times of brands I gotta call you on them all being the same. In my part of the world (south of the 49th) it would have to be an epic disaster to ever have to wait more then 1-2 days on a JD part at harvest. In my mind the parts dept isn't enough to take a JD over a CLAAS, but there is a difference. I've had to travel to Alberta on to get CaseIH parts because of lack of parts and "give a crap" locally. Personally know a guy who had to wait 3 days for a part on his CLAAS combine when a nearby farmer had a rod go through the block on his S680 and was back in the field 2 days later. I suppose everybody can cherry pick horror stories to make a point...

To the original poster, As long as you either know the machine like the back of your hand or have your dealer do an annual inspection I wouldn't be afraid of going away from Deere. The benefits of operating Deere equipment is nice, but make sure you have an accurate price tag attached to them.
 
#12 ·
Farmerfrank you are atleast 1.5 hours from a Claas dealer. Everything on these machines is metric including the hydraulic hoses. There in no one around Moose Jaw and possibly around you that makes metric hoses. A simple leaking hydraulics hose will shut you down for at least a half a day. That can be irritating at harvest. They are a good machine but I would carefully think about it being so far from a dealer when you have 3 John Deere dealers fairly close to you. For us we are a good hour away from the Regina dealer and that is long enough especially when we have the others a lot closer to us. The fuel savings, less grain loss, and better capacity in tough conditions is the big benefit of a Claas for us.
 
#13 ·
One better than the other ......

Since you're all about the costs of running a Claas - which they are probably no better or worse than any of the others - thought it an opportunity to raise this matter. Sorry to the purists of not hi-jacking threads!
I've got to do a presentation about the total operational & ownership costs of a modern machine ....... so I picked a very "simple" machine for the example & in the table below there is an example of the very basic parts that you would normally run through in a "simple" machine, canola pickup & draper head, at 1200hours.
This "simple" machine does 60% cereals, 20% canola & 20% pulses - ie. peas, lentils etc.
Do people think this is a fair representation of the costs - as described - over 1200hrs?

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#14 ·
Since you're all about the costs of running a Claas - which they are probably no better or worse than any of the others - thought it an opportunity to raise this matter. Sorry to the purists of not hi-jacking threads!
I've got to do a presentation about the total operational & ownership costs of a modern machine ....... so I picked a very "simple" machine for the example & in the table below there is an example of the very basic parts that you would normally run through in a "simple" machine, canola pickup & draper head, at 1200hours.
This "simple" machine does 60% cereals, 20% canola & 20% pulses - ie. peas, lentils etc.
Do people think this is a fair representation of the costs - as described - over 1200hrs?

View attachment 110465
Knife guards and sections are probably a bit over the top (for us anyway), but the rest looks pretty fair.

The cost of a Lexion can be slashed a fair bit if your a bit mechanical minded, checking bearing with an inferred thermometer, changing variator bushes, feeder house timbers, spin or replace chopper blades when they start to round, APS wear plates, keeping a close eye on drive chains and belt for wear or fracture, keeping the main drive pulley clean so it doesn't over heat the main seal, all within that 5-600 seperator hrs, if you have smoked any of the belts look at replacing them before the next season, be proactive especially if your running the terra track system if you don't grease the pivot points at least every 50hrs expect a track pivot bush rebuild by 1000hrs and that can add up to big $$$$, auto grease is a must have, but even then the idler main pivot will probably be looking for new bushes by 1000hrs. Look at customising your Lexion for trouble free running eg. Auto grease, Sunnybrook drum, extremely well built the staggered rasp bars and extra weight works wonders in tough conditions, having your APS grates suit the grain your harvesting, round bar for easy to split beans and corn, small grain APS with key stocks for hard to thresh small grains, if you have easy to crack grains look at a HHS interchangeable concave for more softer Sollutions, Impeller flow kit and wear strips to help with the flow between the impeller and the rotors and if your still having dramas add the serrated impeller wear strips and if that's still not good enough look at the Sunnybrook impeller, if your running a standard drum look at fitting the goose feet setup that Claas are offering on the newer machines, I am sure you could make them fit older models. Look at getting rotor covers for harvesting canola so you can blank off more rotor concaves, that's mainly for picking up dry windrows to stop overloading your chaffer sieve. Choppers, in green conditions if your blades are a bit worn or its just nasty, look at putting the drive into low to help stop bridging the chopper and choking your rotors, on the radial spreaders always carry a couple of position sensors for the the wig wag arms and change the pivot point bearings at least every 800hrs. On the Mav choppers add the Lex 480 wind blades to every set of knives to increase the spread to pretty close to 12m. If you have been caught out in the rain during the harvest do yourself a favour and pull your radiator out and give it a proper clean before next season, you will be amazed how much crap will be stuck in the radiator, do not just blow it out and think it will be fine you will be disappointed my 760 runs at less than 90 deg C and that's in 35 deg C day temp if it runs higher than that I know she needs a clean. If the planner arm on the radiator isn't doing at least 30 stokes a minute there is a problem as well look into it your getting more dust and crap into your radiator than you should be. If your a John Deere convert look at the Bridge box that Agra-gps put out so you can yield map and steer with your JD equipment either by Claas valve on later models or the JD ATU on older machines. You don't have to do all these things to make your Lexion work well, but if you are having problems what an unreal list of option. I never had a list of options that long with our JD's or Cases. These are a freakin good combines , I am very fond of my Lex 760tt.
Cheers and Happy Harvesting
 
#15 ·
We demoed a 760 this fall and it blew us away how our S680 couldn't even come close to keeping up in 60 bu/ac canola.
I'm going to attack this this other way around.
Checkbook maintenance is black and white, cut and dried type visible expense and in my view overshadows the much more innocuous grain loss, grain retention as Claas calls it.
All machines, overall, require a fairly similar level of maintenance yet the cost of losses gets ignored.
If all combines, and I'm thinking especially of canola here although in all crops to some extent, were forced to run the same losses Claas rotor covers allow there may be a 2X+ capacity advantage. Is that happening? No! So the wonderful resale/good dealer people don't care about the losses. I guess.
Sorry folks, can't join that crowd, I'd rather make the money up front and endure the usually imaginary, increased cost of Claas ownership.

Do I ever wish PAMI was still evaluating combines to throw scientific data at this, word of mouth is accurately starting to set in though.

Remember when New Holland commissioned that paid for PAMI test in 2015 vs Deere?
Why do you think they didn't do that against Claas?
Two reasons, they likely don't see Claas as the main competition, they're wrong, and, they'd lose. Overall, all factors considered in that test, soundly.
Respect through omission.
 
#16 ·
I'll definitely agree with your statement Don, I certainly collect a lot more grain in difficult harvesting situations and save a lot of money on fuel and those were the main reasons I went Claas. The first year we ran the Lexion 750tt as a demo we still had a JD 9770 and we also demoed a S680 in the same field, wheat yielding 5t/ha and badly lodged the 9770 was taking off 40t/hr and using 50 litres/hr, the S680 was munching down 90 litres/hr and taking off 48t/hr both had the normal JD losses and the Lexion was punching 60t/hr and using 58litres/hr with very little on the ground behind it, then the S680 dropped all the oil out of the hydro after 20ha and that was just the last straw for me, I did another 500ha with the Lexion without any issues and I was sold on its fuel saving grain quality and lack of losses, I haven't looked back
 
#28 ·
I'm sure we are "asked" to pay more for parts in OZ than NA. The knife & guards are a complete replacement as this machine does lentils, peas etc. & any time your cutter bar is running on the ground, the costs go up. Dirt etc. just eats all those cutting components up ..... especially the back of the knife & wear plate on the guards.
 
#20 ·
If your going to be looking at new machines you should compare apples to apples and try a new S-Series. They have changed ALOT since 2012. Everyone on here that loves their lexions so much never seems to have any comparison data against the newer machines, just the 2012-2014 models. I was in the field where a 2015 S690 performed better in terms of losses and capacity than a 2015 780. Maybe the lexion customers need to quit drinking the yellow kool aid and realize that there are other combines out there as well.
 
#22 ·
I know there is other combines out there. I have run three major brands now and demoed four. I tried to buy JD two years ago and the price of admission was just too high! I know guys that are paying way more per hour to trade their green combines than what I am to trade yellow, I know that my maintenance costs on a 500 separator hour Claas were not out of line and I know the older S series is nowhere near a Claas in productivity. Maybe the new ones are better but they had a lot of ground to make up. I'd love to see it happen though because I love everything about my local JD dealer.
 
#21 ·
They don't make silver Koolaid. Its a secret cocktail of rum and 7up shared by few lol. Bigger isn't always better, according to my wife, but I think she is feeling sorry for me lol. Love to drive a TT750 last year in our mudbining. Half the crop is still in the field and 60 bu canola wasn't a reality either. Everything was poor to say the least. I will keep driving wore out silver. Combines are only as good as the service they receive. 1200hrs is not even broke in in my world. 3000+ here
 
#23 ·
Our costs of maintenance have been much higher on our 760 then our old 9870. I just calculated our repair costs on the first two years and we are spending $3.95/acre. On our old JD over 4 years it was $2.85/acre. I understand there are more moving parts, but to tell you the truth I'm a bit disappointed in build quality on our machine and how many bearings etc... Have to be replaced after 2 seasons. I realize there has been a lot of grain put through the machine over these two years in some extremely tough conditions, but with one year being under warranty and still having such high maintenance costs was a disappointment to say the least.
 
#40 ·
Our costs of maintenance have been much higher on our 760 then our old 9870. I just calculated our repair costs on the first two years and we are spending $3.95/acre. On our old JD over 4 years it was $2.85/acre.
Hmmm, $3.95 divided by $2.85 is 1.38 :5:

I am no apologist for outrageous Class(or any other brand's) parts prices, but a 38% price increase over the last few years seems about right....unfortunately.:frown:
 
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#30 ·
Spraysmart do you think the sales guy doing the demo new how to set the machine? Some sales guys are really knowledgeable and other are there to collect a pay check. If he did not know how to get the gps working right I was wondering if he knew how to set it. There is definatley conditions where Deere will shine and do better than a Class. When it is hot dry and sunny the single rotor machines can outperform a class in the heat of the day. Once the sun sets or it gets tough than it is a different story. This past fall we were comibning durum wheat that had this lime green wet straw and dry grain. I was disapointed with my 590 capacity only going 2.5-3 mph until I drove by my neighbor and saw him doing similar lime green crop with a 680 and was barley moving. I did not think he was actually was moving till I saw his reel moving and a little bit coming out the back.
 
#41 ·
Don it seems like a lot of single rotor machines do best in hot dry sunny conditions. With a claas rotor combine you can get more break up of the straw in the heat of the day which can cause more issues with shoe loss. It definitely has not been the problem the past few years with the tough conditions.
 
#43 ·
True, but dry straw and grain separate easier and the addition of the hydraulic on the go rotor covers can control chaff load and TM6 sieves aid cleaning as well.
Sure wasn't a issue last year, got that right!
I virtually never encounter conditions where I can't run engine power limit and still have minimal loss.
But I'm beginning to think a Sunnybrook (SB) cylinder and likely, mainly, the all crop (SB) concave separate better than stock allowing separation at such feed rates. SWAG, never have run the two side by side but with the people I harvest with checking me I'm never told to change any settings nor to slow down.
They like that, I like that.:54:
 
#42 ·
We took sieves out of our 485 this year and put them beside our 9870 the lexion was way longer so sieve loss wont be an issue vs the deere,
Cost of maintenance is same as deere imo, we actually had higher cost of maintenance with our deere because the sieve hangers broke for no good reason, quite costly that got
 
#45 · (Edited)

Note this is the finer rasp bar 1/2" spacing instead of the more common 3/4" I believe it is.


Concave, never, NEVER opened over 12mm!
Also, round bar APS concave, open in peas and barley, closed in wheat and canola.
All adjustments from cab otherwise for crop changes.
Oh, except the 1/4 turn hydraulic valve closing 8 sections of rotor covers for canola in addition to the 2, 4 section each CEMOS Automatic or dialed still controlled in the cab.

It's enough of an excuse to party!

Not that it takes much!
This pic just happens be beside the other two in Photobucket, couldn't resist.
 
#46 ·
Thanks for all the responses. I do realize the distance from the nearest dealer may become an issue, as I'm 1.5 hours from Swift Current, but I'm almost at the point where I'm willing to take the risk. I was wrong also when I said we demoed a 760, it was a 750. When I look at the difference between a 750 and a 760, I can't imagine how badly our deeres would have lost. Now, for my next question.... we're at the point where we should really be running 3 S680's, as we're always hiring neighbors to come do some custom work to help finish up. I realise 2 760's wouldn't replace 3 680's, but... it's gotta be close?
 
#47 ·
Ah yes, the Alec Baldwin party pic again, and foreign beer that I don't remember the name of!

Farmer Frank, it sounds like you have seen what a lexion can do, you have liked what you saw, and apparently have a motivated dealer wanting your business, based on allowing a demo. I would have a good talk with your current and lexion dealer and go from there. If you proceed with a lexion, good used machines are priced reasonable. Maybe get your feet wet for a year or two, determine what options would be beneficial, then possibly order or find some just how you would want them spec'd.

Worst case scenario, go back to deere. It isn't like you're married to them, just a piece of iron, maybe more iron than others:wink:
 
#62 ·
#48 ·
Thanks farmerfrank for your location. I am guessing if your canola is doing what you indicated in the first post you grow a fair bit of straw? What other crops do you grow?

The Claas really shines in tough conditions, if it was tough maybe close to a 3 for 2 scenario but only in certain crops. I grow a LOT of straw here and only maxed out my 780 maybe 25% of the time power-wise. Many times I was limited by feeder house ability to put it through or cutting ability in crops like peas or soybeans. I would note that Claas has the best feeder house in the industry with New Holland DSP a close second. I found the JD and CaseIH have a hard time feeding the crop when pushed in tough conditions. When you are reversing you are not combining. There might be times in light crop or when it is very dry that a S680 might hang with a 760 but from guys I talk to that have run both the JD will never match losses provided settings are done properly.

I would caution against not buying from the dealer if you are a first time owner. I know the assistance I got from my dealer last year as a first time owner was a real help and would have had a hard time asking for that kind of support if I had bought somewhere else. A good relationship with your dealer is key IMO. Of course there is a lot of great advice on here too!:eek:k:
 
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