It's here! 600 CIH NTTL official test

[farminflyboy]

Its ok FJ, Deere had to have Cummins make their big HP numbers for a while too!

Alfred, KTA1150 Cummins could be had with well over 2000ft/lbs of torque, even back in the day...it is one beast of an engine.

[Don Boles]

Originally Posted by farmerleach

I thought I paid close attention to the results on that site. You kind of seem to have a jump on posting results Don. Do they send the results to you to proof read them or something?

Pure luck, checked the NTTL site and it was posted.

[Don Boles]

Originally Posted by farmerjones

So if it's 13% more fuel efficient, where do we subtract for the DEF usage in that equation?

It appears DEF engines use the highest percentage of DEF at maximum power, any less than max power the percent of DEF also backs off a bit.
Tractors are never operated at max all the time so one has to look at other settings.
If you look at the
VARYING POWER AND FUEL CONSUMPTION chart the highest % DEF use is 7.17% and the lowest 4.84%

Another interesting thing is the 75% of Pull at Reduced Engine Speed, the Deere uses a 21.8% more fuel and at the 50% of Pull at Reduced Engine speed
the Deere uses a whooping 26.2% more fuel at a power level where the CIH would be using around 6% DEF.

A little early to write off DEF Engines perhaps FJ?

[bigbudluvr]

Don's JD 9630 is already sitting on the CaseIH lot, so yes he knows the insider horsepower guys at NTTL!

Ahhh, Launch an investigation!!!



Lets put two turbos on a QSK19 or old KTA1150, yep 2000lb/ft torque hardly a problem. Ain't knocking the new stuff, its fabulous, and looking for the perfect plot of efficiency regarding the engine/drivetrain/lug/rpm variables with electronics, which is mighty cool. Still think a Big Tractor outta have a Big Engine, and with the new techy stuff. It'll throttle back even more with the fat torque band.


Those KTA's 1150s were a lifesaver for some of the biggest farms for a long time. Nothing else lugged like them. 525/50, KP525, & 1150/1156 owners can testify to this.

[QT550]

Originally Posted by Don Boles

It appears DEF engines use the highest percentage of DEF at maximum power, any less than max power the percent of DEF also backs off a bit.

Case told me the opposite, that the engine will use more Def on light loads
vs heavy loads. Only got 100 hrs on my 550 this fall, using it for light tillage .
60%to 65% load. Used 90 gals of Def. A lot more than what the saleman told me it would be. So I will see this spring if gets better on Def, when I get
the seeder hooked on and make the darn thing earn its oats.

On a side note: When I was at the ag show in Minot I was talking to the
guys at Thunder Creek Fuel Trailers about a def tank for my service truck.
And he mentioned that John Deere Corporate had just ordered fuel trailer
with 100 gal Def tank on it. They are up to something.

[farmerjones]

JD may very well use DEF, but I just think it's funny how every just "knows" that's what's going to happen. And it appears Case has some very good fuel consumption numbers coming out, and we all need a way to save some money. But it seems a little wrong to advertise all these "uses X% less fuel than the competition" and then not even mention the extra DEF fluid expenses ANYWHERE in the add. And I haven't talked to or heard one person yet tell me there DEF fluid usage was less than what the were expected to use, it's always MORE. Only time will tell what tech will win out in the end. All I know there are plenty of people happy to not be fiddling around with DEF right now during the winter season!

[Don Boles]

Originally Posted by QT550

Case told me the opposite, that the engine will use more Def on light loads
vs heavy loads. Only got 100 hrs on my 550 this fall, using it for light tillage .
60%to 65% load. Used 90 gals of Def. A lot more than what the saleman told me it would be.

I think your salesman was wrong twice, these tests clearly show DEF % backs off a bit as load goes down and you probably used about 1500 gals of fuel which would be in the 6% area.

These larger engines require far more DEF than the smaller ones, take the MF 8680 for example:

http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/Massey/mf8680.pdf

DEF use maximium 3% of fuel use.
So it appears bigger engines = bigger problem.

[QT550]

Originally Posted by Don Boles

I think your salesman was wrong twice, these tests clearly show DEF % backs off a bit as load goes down and you probably used about 1500 gals of fuel which would be in the 6% area.

These larger engines require far more DEF than the smaller ones, take the MF 8680 for example:

http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/Massey/mf8680.pdf

DEF use maximium 3% of fuel use.
So it appears bigger engines = bigger problem.

Went out to tractor to double check my numbers. 1400 gal of fuel, 100 gals Def in 102 hrs. .0714% Def rate. According to my cyphering. In line with
test, but 2% over what Case told me. The usage theory is from Case themselves, not the saleman. The extra 2% Def is not deal breaker, but
I just wish that equipment companies would more up front their info.
Going to the plant in March. I'll corner them there on this Def thing.

[Don Boles]

Originally Posted by QT550

Went out to tractor to double check my numbers. 1400 gal of fuel, 100 gals Def in 102 hrs. .0714% Def rate. According to my cyphering. In line with
test, but 2% over what Case told me. The usage theory is from Case themselves, not the saleman. The extra 2% Def is not deal breaker, but
I just wish that equipment companies would more up front their info.
Going to the plant in March. I'll corner them there on this Def thing.

I've had worst SWAG's.

Your right, that would be a light load, you were just kind of touring around the field.

It's going to take awhile until we get a solid handle on %age DEF use but there is no way what Case told you is accurate, not under controlled, verifiable conditions.

Have a good factory tour, you can be sure they will be boned up on this, when the only one in the 4WD town pushing a new system knowing details is key.
At least it should be!

[onlyred]

Originally Posted by QT550

Went out to tractor to double check my numbers. 1400 gal of fuel, 100 gals Def in 102 hrs. .0714% Def rate. According to my cyphering. In line with
test, but 2% over what Case told me. The usage theory is from Case themselves, not the saleman. The extra 2% Def is not deal breaker, but
I just wish that equipment companies would more up front their info.
Going to the plant in March. I'll corner them there on this Def thing.

I was also told that the outside temperature and humidity can greatly affect the amount of DEF consumed.