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Bourgault 3710 review

165K views 538 replies 64 participants last post by  cat man 
#1 ·
The first pic of frame is what I like about the 3710 disk drill. The second pic of openers is everything I don't like. Any questions?
Are any of you doing this "corrective action" on your drills after 10,000 acres? I started installing the new pivot bearings in place of pivot bushings. I cleaned the housings and parallel arms and installed new bearings and seals. After the new bearings went in the new pivot pins will not go through the new bearings. I appears the holes going through the housing and parallel arms are not straight and are out of round. It distorts the new bearing into a slight oval so pin doesn't fit. Also if you drop the parallel arms on the welding table the seals fall out of it. They seam really flimsy, and we would be relying on those toilet seat spacers to keep the seals in, or a little lock tight, but those toilet seats fall out now and then also. With all the side load from the compound disk what is going to keep from popping the seal out of the one side?
Has anyone else had this problem? Have any of you done this with success? Has anyone got any acres on the 3720 with pivot bearings?
I was hoping this would be a cure for a big problem , but after I'm into it up to my Elbos it seams more like a bandade for a big wound!
I've been a loyal bourgault customer for 17 years and I really want to like this drill but I'm having a difficult time covincing myself that this is worth it. And looking at $13,000 in parts at my expense sitting on the shop shelves and then hoping this thing will bury the seed after I'm done with this whole thing.
 

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#3 ·
I believe they are needle bearings.

Those drills look like a nightmare to work on. I would have thought BG would have covered the cost of the parts upgrade at least?

Have you used it in the field yet or did you just buy it? Does it perform in the field?
 
#4 · (Edited)
They are needle bearings. I'm putting 864 bearings and 576 seals in seeding opener arms now. Bourgault did the rear pivot last year which took 144 bearings and 144 seals. I'm also putting in 144 bearings and races in coulter hubs. And 72 seals
Then another 432 bearings and 288 seals into MRb arms then 72 bearings and races in bander hubs along with 36 seals
I've used the drill. It looses its disk angle and misses the seed trench, broadcasting seed on top of the ground.
 

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#8 ·
They are needle bearings. I'm putting 864 bearings and 576 seals in seeding opener arms now. I did the rear pivot last year which took 144 bearings and 144 seals. I'm also putting in 144 bearings and races in coulter hubs. And 72 seals
Then another 432 bearings and 288 seals into MRb arms then 72 bearings and races in bander hubs along with 36 seals
I've used the drill. It looses its disk angle and misses the seed trench, broadcasting seed on top of the ground.
Holy Crap!!! Ok I'll have to stop complaining. We have a Cross Slot with a total of 296 bearings on it. However only about half of those have a bearing, race and seal. The rest are sealed bearings that only need replacing at a high amount of acres (we've got 24k on ours and I think its still good for a while). Gotta love disk drills.
 
#7 ·
I would be irate with bourgault for how much they over charge for this equipment it should last 100,000 acres and if it prematurely fails the parts and labour should be covered that's terrible. I liked the idea of a disc drill but figured it would be a nightmare when it got wore out but 10,000 acres is only 2 seasons that's terrible. Even my Seedmaster the unit is simple enough but for example the hinges on the wings are just holes cut in steel with no hardened inserts or bushings once the pin which is harder than the mild steel hangers wear the holes outta shape enough the whole piece has to be cut off and replaced. It should be built to last for decades they charge so much for so little nowadays with ag equipment anything in trucking or construction is built to be rebuilt not just throw it away every 3 years like this junk
 
#15 ·
Their factories and jigs and crimpers and labor and steel are all probably free. I don't see why they don't give them away. A coulter drill is exactly that... a coulter drill. It is a niche product made a for a small market, that is incredibly labor intensive & requires substantial maintenance. Being a 10 series it is already 3 years old, it's going to need some work.

You build a drill to last for a decade and I'll show you an overpriced, out of date POS.
 
#11 ·
That sucks. I remember last spring being at an auction with a winged up 3710 with less than 10 000 acres on it and pushing up on the wing openers. There was a surprising amount of play in it.

I sure like my Pillars for the simplicity. 2 greasable tapered roller bearings (disc and packer wheel), a non-serviceable double roller for the cleaning wheel (that are laying on a pallet right now) and a single nylon pivot bushing.


I wonder if there will be a reaction against the complexity of parallel linkage setups anytime soon? Can there really be enough of a yield benefit to overcome the extra cost of manufacture and maintenance compared to a simple swingarm setup?
 
#12 ·
I wonder if there will be a reaction against the complexity of parallel linkage setups anytime soon? Can there really be enough of a yield benefit to overcome the extra cost of manufacture and maintenance compared to a simple swingarm setup?
Interesting comment. I have had a fair bit of exposure to this very thing over the last couple of years. Some of these parallel setups are just simply poorly designed and under engineered. I believe with not much extra cost at a factory level these wear issues can be addressed. There seriously seems to be a lot of junk out there at the moment, surely they will get it right soon.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Kurt, bourgault is estimating this greasable setup will last 40,000 acres. But know one really knows. That's four times longer then bushings. Once the openers get side play they loose their cutting angle and just blow the seed on top of ground. So they have to remain tight.
I agree that these manufacures were pumping out some crap :46:way to fast. I've seen allot of poor quality equipment setup, which leads to things breaking or falling off or wearing out to soon. Allot of the dealers sub contracted their equipment setup to a third party.
I really don't want to do this again as long as I own this drill. Which will probably meen that the 3710 will not remain on my farm as long as my bourgaults of the past.
I will now have 784 grease zerks to grease. Bourgault is saying 250 hr intervals. But Im going to grease it every 1000 acres. Maybe to much but I don't want to go through all of this again any time soon. It will take a good part of a day just to grease it. But still way less labor then taking it all apart and replacing parts.
I am really surprised that bourgault didn't step up and pull all these drills in an update them at their cost. I think the labor cost is the biggest problem. My drill was at the factory and got inspected and they said side play was not enough to warrent replacement. The first day I planted with it the openers moved so much they ran into each other and broke the grease zerks off on the rear pivot that bourgault just updated. And I couldnt get it to bury the seed. I would think as big as bougault has gotten at bare minimum they could have supplied parts at no cost to the farmer. We paid for it in poor seed placement and screwed up crops and now we are paying for it in the shop.
Horch Anderson pumped out some crap to fast also. But they were at my farm and dropped off a bunch of parts at no cost to me, I supplied labor they supplied parts. I am very happy with horsch Anderson. They said they subed out setup and couldn't keep up with demand. They stepped up!
 
#17 ·
If you look at what that drill cost and weighs vs the competition it should last twice as long. Disc drills are the worse but don't think any of the para link hoe drills are much further behind. Way more moving parts vs the old ridged frame hoe drill. Not sure what's worse to work on a discs drill or a combine? Oh I forgot I use to be a skid steer mechanic!
 
#18 ·
I have one of the first 3710 and it has over 35000 ac on it now, after the first year they came and replaced the bushings to greasable bearings. I grease my drill 3 times a season, beginning of seeding about half way through and at the end of the season...about 8 tubes each time, takes me about 2 hrs to do a good thorough job. I have a bit of side play but I think it is well within specs for the acres I have on it. We seed very shallow and seed our cereals and oilseeds at the same depth. I also keep my down pressure at the lowest setting possible since I farm in mellow heavy clay and overpacking is a big concern. We had a fair bit of seed on top of the ground the first couple of years we used it but then installed Dutch airguard seed brakes and that has virtually eliminated seed on top of the ground. I am replacing all the bearings in the cleaner wheels this year (preventative maintenance) and I don't like the cost of them from BG $85a piece. A local bearing place can get them for $40.

When people ask me if they should buy one I am always hesitant in recommending it but would I buy another one...yes I would because it does a very fine job of seeding for me.

I think maybe seeding conditions play an important role in how fast it wears...if you are seeding into rock hard dry abrasive soil it definitely will wear out much faster, my discs have maybe worn 1/8" you can't tell with out measuring it.

Catman if you owned this drill since new, I would think BG should definitely help you out with parts and warranty.
 
#20 ·
Catman if you owned this drill since new, I would think BG should definitely help you out with parts and warranty.
I don't think it should matter if cat man bought it new or not! BG knows there is an issue here and it depends how much sandy conditions you are exposed to as to how quickly it surfaces. Guys buying new equipment and dumping it right when problems arise shouldn't excuse manufacturers from coming good and helping with the needed repairs. BG is usually pretty good about this type of thing and I would hope they do something for cat man in this situation, especially since the labor is a major part of the expense here and he is doing it himself.;)
 
#22 ·
Stevie

This is what I am using on all the new pivot bearings. It's a nlgi #1 calcium sulfonate grease. It works great on wheel loader pivot pins. So I figure it should do the job on the Bourgault pivots.

In my hubs I'm using s cat ball bearing grease nlgi 2 polyurea. I'm not sure this one is the best for the hubs. It's a low load grease.
Any of you have any recommendations what you are greasing your hubs with?
 

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#23 ·
I'm a little bit choked to hear about the quantity of grease nipples that are on the 3720's verses the non greaseable composite bushings that were used on the 3710's. I actually thought that the composite ones were working quite well, but realistically, the acre count on the drill was too low for any problems to arise.

I'm away at the moment, but had it confirmed that there is a boat load of grease nipples for sure.

I'm not a huge fan of Torrington bearings in wet or dirty conditions. That being said, they can be the answer, when nothing else is practical. To be successful, the bearing area absolutely needs to be large enough for the loads, otherwise the needles will wear prematurely.

Two similar situations where these style of bearings seem to work well are in universal joints, which are somewhat similar, and also in the rear suspension rising rate pivot, used in dirt motorcycles. In the later example, the application is very similar to the design on the airdrill linkage. On the dirt bike, the smallest bearing on the assembly, that is under comparatively higher force for its size, will be the only one to fail when lubrication is always well maintained.

If unreasonably fast linkage wear is occurring on a disc drill, I believe farming practices may be a factor. A bearing or a bushing won't wear without some movement caused by the terrain. It may be worthwhile to develop a field finish management plan that won't destroy the airdrill.
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#25 ·
If unreasonably fast linkage wear is occurring on a disc drill, I believe farming practices may be a factor. A bearing or a bushing won't wear without some movement caused by the terrain. It may be worthwhile to develop a field finish management plan that won't destroy the airdrill.
.
I use vertical tillage to level and smooth fields in the fall. Seeding speed is 4.5mph. I do have some hills. My other bourgault drills have handled my terain with no problem.

The factory bearings I am taking out of my coulter hubs don't even have a name on them, no part number or anything. I'm replacing them with Timkin bearings. And to my surprise the Timkins cost less.
 
#24 ·
Gm

Have your seals been staying in? Are the toilet seats holding them in? So do you have about 26,000 acres on you pivot bearings? That would put under 10,000 acres on first set of bushings. That's already lasting twice as long. Have you had any problems with plugged runs with air brakes? Any trouble with them coming off? Do you have straw shields installed? I am really interested in your info. Thanks for the glimmer of hope. I have yet to see mine do an excellent job. It's all apart in the shop now, so now is the time to make this thing right if it's possible!

I don't think it matters who owns the drill new or used it seems they are all failing at 10,000 acres. One guy might seed 10,000 acres a year, another might seed 5000 acres a year, the next guy might seed 3500 acres. They are all going to fail, just some might fail later then others but the same acres. In my opinion when the drill delivers the the seed to the soil surface and not under the soil that would be a fail. Seeding is the most important operation. If you screw that up everything else you do afterwards won't make up for it.
I did try to get rid of it. But resale really got spanked! I do believe bourgault should have gone after all of these drills and fixed a big problem. Instead mr. Farmer unloades it at auction for it to be the next farmers problem. I bought mine from my local bourgault dealer.
 
#27 ·
We use a Lemken Heliodor in the fall and have a very smooth field finish. The openers don't move up or down at all. My coulter hubs are the original ones and I have had zero failures on them, it's the cleaner wheel bearings that are failing, they are non greasable. I had to tighten about 6 of the coulter hub bearings and that's it so they have 35,000 ac on them and I don't expect any oft hem to fail this year.

I seed at 6mph and don't have straw shields since we work our straw down in the fall. I had the first generation seed brakes and some of them wore through after 7200 ac, Dutch Ind. warrantied them and the ones I have on there now seem to hold up. My canola fertilizer blend was very dusty and did plug the seed brake exhaust and some of those chunks came loose and then plugged the boot (aggravating), this year I had 7L of soy oil applied to every tonne of fertilizer, I hope that will solve the plugging problem.

I mounted the seed brakes just above the seed tube...just cut the existing hose about 2" above the tube and install the seed brake there. Non have come loose and I don't expect any to come loose.

I hope this helps. I also agree you want to get the seeding job right the first time, our gumbo soil is totally unforgiving...there are no second chances in the spring here. We direct seed and do NOT work the ground before seeding in the spring. I run my fan between 4800 and 5000 in cereals and about 4600-4800 in canola and 3200 in soybeans seeded on 20" rows
 
#28 ·
Gm
Sounds like we have very similar situations. I use a Horshanderson joker rt370 with a roll flex packer on the back in the fall and go either 90 degrees or 0 degrees the same way we plant. Fields are very smooth and level. I do have hills, valleys, slopes, low spots that sort of thing. My openers are moving and flexing over hill tops and through water runs. That is my main reason for going to an independent drill to follow variable terain. If my land was flat as a table top I don't think I would get as much benefit from and independent drill. I do seed slower than you just to keep from plugging air system, I am handling all dry fertilizers with variable rate controller.
Have you ever had one of your coulter hubs off? I am curiouse what brand bearings are in yours. Since you haven't had any trouble it makes me think mine was assembled with some junk no name bearings. Mine have no numbers or names on them.
Have you had any trouble with wheat or pea straw building up behind the scraper? Would you say that the straw shields are not necessary in wheat and peas and beans? I'm tossing around the idea of putting them on also, I think they are $30 something each.
 
#32 ·
No I never had a coulter bearing off, don't know what kind of bearing is in there. Yes I have had trouble with soybean stubble wrapping around the leading edge of the scraper. They need to be adjusted just right or else they wrap and cause lots of grief.
 
#31 ·
Funny you mention the 8810/8910. Neighbour decided a few years ago that it was time to join the air drill club and traded his 8810 on a 5710. Ran it for 1 season and he's back to an 8910. With the frame wheels in the middle of the cultivator, he figures he gets better front-to-back contouring which helps his seed depth. He uses BG rear mounted packers.

I keep flip-flopping on going to the independent drills. I like the concept but then I read threads like this one and shudder. Cultivators are cheap (relatively).

Andrew
 
#34 · (Edited)
Here are my hub bearings I found inside my coulter hubs on seeding openers. I had allot of loose hubs, so I went through and tightened the real bad ones, then the ones I tightened started to go out one by one. But when the hubs are loose they don't ride against the scraper right. There is no name brand or part number on the bearing. Why does no company want to put their name on them?
So now since everything is in the shop I'm taking out the crap and putting in timkin bearings. Just for preventative maintanence.
Something has to change. The only business I know that can keep pumping out crap and stay successful long term are those in the septic business!
I do believe the bourgault disk drill can someday be a great drill. It's just hard to believe we are all still talking about it putting seed on top the ground six years later! I'm not talking "seed placement concerns". Seed on top the ground does not grow! I take that back, I did have excessive rain and some peas laying on top the ground did root in and grow.
 

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#37 ·
You have to be very careful about how tight those bearings are running. I have mine set so i can take the disc and just feel the smallest amount of movement (you can't see it, just feel it) the discs should spin freely not like a wheel bearing where there might be a bit of resistance.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Same here, every time I look at independents, all I see is wear and complication and tons of iron.:confused: And the cost is out of this world. Now it sounds like poor construction. Neighbors Seed hawks grow same crops as my 5710. 6 years on a used 1998 model and ZERO repairs. Just seed slow and adjust the depth a bit on the go. Cheap, simple, strong, NO moving parts on openers. The 8810 I used for 11 years cost me nothing but openers. :) I hate repairing. Good luck.
 
#36 ·
One thing to ponder as well, we set up that new 8910 for about $200,000 less than any paralink we priced out - that's a lot of bus that will never show up at the end of the day.
Don't get me wrong these new air drills are nice and can do a good job but will not produce a bus/ac more.
If you need a big drill 70 -100 ft , that's a diff story , that's the only game to play then - there are no other choices so it's either high repair time or trade at least every 3 years, it is what it is.
 
#38 · (Edited)
My drill was at the Bourgault factory getting packer pivot bearing updates 2,500 acres ago. At 35 acres an hour that 71 hours run time. I was concerned with side play, was told by dealer that would be fixed by bourgault. but they said it was within spec. The first day I used it the openers ran into each other and broke the new grease zerks they just put in.
Now after taking it apart I find Housings that look like pins were wore through the bushings and into the housings. After closer inspection there is still 1/2 to 1/3 the material left on the bushings I am removing. There is no metal on metal contact by pivot pins and opener body. I believe the opener bodies are being stretched out of round, not worn. If you look closely at the area where the seal is that area is pushed downward. I think This could be caused by loose bushings and the housings hammering back and forth stretching them. I hope! Because I am now putting bearings in there that fit tight. This may also explain the difficulty of aligning all three bearings with the pivot pin. If the outside two bearings are tilted downward on one side and upward on the other they do not align with the center bearing that sits right.
There is no way that much wear happened in 71 hours! In my opinion They just passed the problem out of bourgaults hand for me to deal with.
this drill should have never left the factory parking lot that day with bushings this bad and set on my farm to fight with.
 

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