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Poorest stands since starting no till

24K views 83 replies 32 participants last post by  SWFarmService 
#1 ·
After having the poorest stand ever since starting no till need to make some changes or use more tillage. Small grains seed into undisturbed soybean and pea stubble fair. Small grains into sunflower stubble perfect. Small grains into flax stubble fair. Peas into barley stubble fair.Flax and Sunflower into wheat stubble disaster. Combines are spreading residue well. Small grain stubble fall harrowed. every thing was seeded with JD 1895 drill new blades. Seems stands have been getting gradually worse past 3 years. Any areas disturbed with Gates coulter disc perfect stand.I am considering going back to a shank type drill because of hair pining and cold seed bed.I don't have the man power to cover the acres with vertical tillage. Is the shank drill my best option?10 years notill first 3 with shank drill last 7 disc drill.
 
#2 ·
I dont know about the experience in the US but here in canada its primarily shank drills ranging from 1-4" openers. I use a 1" opener for pulses seeded a little deeper and a 3.5" spread tip for canola and flax with fertilizer. I usually have a pretty black seedbed afterwards and the soil warms nicely. We aren't short of moisture here so I can afford to disturb a bit during seeding.
 
#6 ·
After a few years of having my Salford, I think I have to bring some tillage back in. I'm getting a compaction layer at about 2 inches and neither the drill nor the roots will penetrate it.

Planning on throwing some spikes on the old CCIL 808 55 foot chisel this fall and ripping a few thousand acres then heavy harrowing to level off. Cheaper than buying a different drill and might do nearly the same thing?
 
#12 ·
Any possible chance to get some pics?

Know anyone with a plane? Take a look from above to make 100% sure it's not the combine

Would row cleaners be an option?

There is a ship load of them 1895's running around here and they produce good stands as long as guys set them deep enough, what guys seem to have found trying to add a hoe drill of any sort to the farm generally ends up becoming a dump Rake and they still end up with poorer stands

Keep in mind every area is different but your going to tell me I am the most backwards retard in the world but some guys seem to be finding that they are having better luck not harrowing, while hair pinning is worse along with field finish but they seem to penitrate the ground that much better with the blanket of straw on top to keep the moisture closer to the top. Also the soil itself will do a better job handling the straw load

Also maybe grow more sunflowers?
 
#13 ·
Switching to a Shelbourne head for small grains might solve some of your problems. As one farmer in Alberta says, Shelbournes and disc seeders go together like hand in glove.

Also, on the 1895, make sure the seed boots are up to spec, and that the big pin where the opener attaches to the rockshaft hasn't gotten worn and sloppy. If you add ballast to the frame and crank up the downpressure, those drills will penetrate almost anything.
 
#14 ·
Couple of things,we have a clay loan soil ,located in central North Dakota,labor is an issue I don't have a large enough operation for full time labor notill one pass has worked up till now.Seems like many notill operators like myself have gone back to shank drill in our area ,it's nice to have no erosion and moisture to seed into but my production is starting to suffer with the disc drill.
 
#16 ·
This is the same issues we ran into when we did zero till. Ground got so hard nothing could grow and wet year after wet year was too much, never ever dried enough to grow a decent crop. Had MRB's and used 3/4 inch knives to seed and just didn't blacken things up enough to warm it up. Gone back to putting fertilizer on first pass then seeding, too dry seldom happens here. If you must stay one pass, try wider openers to move some dirt around.
 
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#18 ·
Thanks for the replys . We will see what fields look like from the combine and what the yield monitor and maps show us. I really would like to make the drill work, it was new, a sizable investment for us . Maybe add weights, increase seeding depth, maybe Coulter harrow, maybe run over it all with Gates disc.Might not be problem next year, dry season this year 30 bu small grain stubble isn't a lot of residue to deal with.
 
#19 ·
I'm guessing your south of the interstate? Other than a few spots it seems we couldn't buy a rain if we wanted too, crop in areas is pretty disheartening especially given the farm economy, I shouldn't be grinding my teeth already about how fun it will be in the bankers office this spring

A friend of mine east river tried row cleaners this year and was pretty happy with the results but after drought and hail it's likely not of concern how much better it was

 

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#20 ·
We farm alone I 94 I thought with limited rainfall no till would really shine this year, but not being able to get an even stand even if we conserve the moisture is disapointing.The residue managers interest me I had not thought about them for the air drill. If some one has experience with them I would like to find out how they perform.Cover crops and tillage radishes are questionable here because fall moisture typically comes after labor day and killing frost comes about sept 25. not much time for growth, also concern about using up any fall stored moisture.
 
#21 ·
Your fall conditions sound a lot like ours. All this tillage radish and cover crops are fine if you have enough moisture and heat units that late in the season but it seems unless it's a monsoon August which is less often than a dry one for us it's a complete waste of money. Since I went complete zero till 5 years ago the best thing for us at least is running a harrow over every acre before seeding. You have to remember though we seed with stealth paired row openers which seem to hold up in our rocks and abrasive clay soil. Our harrows are a bourgault 6000 mid harrow so by no means heavy but still enough action to spread residue and even the moisture up. Probably if you're using a disk the harrow is the last thing you need but it sure seems to help with seedbed when it's dry for us. I always thought we were a little too cold of soils for disks to really shine. North of me in the really rocky and sandier grey wooded soils those disks are awesome but here guys have trouble getting emergence to equal a para link or even an air hoe drill.
 
#23 ·
I agree when it works it's great now picture same field with 5 or 6 plants in a 40x 60 area with multiple 40x60 ft areas. The only fields with acceptable stands are canola sunflower or vertical tillage. Can't afford to have so so crops in todays environment. Just looking for a way to make notill work. Was the field seeded with a shank or disc drill?
 
#26 ·
I agree...unless you onownthe cause this could get even more expensive

1. Did seeds germinate? To cold?
2. Did seeds germinate and grow a little then die? Was it due to stunted roots or fert in row producing to much acid?...slottly type trench versus softer friable trench?
3. Was it seed soil contact? Hair pinning or seeds landing on top and blowing open in the wet?
4. Was it seed burst...water in trench after seeding for 48 hours etc..?
5. Ground pest ...slugs or the type?

Need to understand what went wrong or even tyne seeder might not deliver what u looking for?

Good luck!!..

Ant..
 
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#35 ·
I've never seen a slug so am assuming they really don't like minus 20 to 40 during winter.

The greatest threat in this is a spring frost however canola goes in after flax peas, faba, wheat, etch

I'd love to hear why the seeds didn't germinate tho, or what is going on in the op's fields. I think we could all learn a bunch discovering what is going on there.
 
#39 ·
Seed was in the middle of a 3/4" mat of straw and chaff in a seed trench that had smeared sides and bottom that baked hard. This year was worse because we had no "timely" spring rains to even out germination. Some seed sprouted and died before it could root in. Some germinated later.Some sprouted and died because the smeared trench was so hard it couldn't root in. Seeding deeper just pushed every thing deeper same results. Our ground seems to be getting more compacted, as My Gates coulter disc just rolls on top won't even penetrate the ground In some fields. Yes there is some issue with residue due to combines running in the same path for years.Tried running at an angle didn't seem to make any difference. Like I said we'll see what it looks like from the combine and what the yield monitor shows, I really don't want to make any extra passes. but I need good production and that starts with a good stand.
 
#40 ·
Seed was in the middle of a 3/4" mat of straw and chaff in a seed trench that had smeared sides and bottom that baked hard.
Are you running that drill at maximum down-pressure? From the JD guys I know running at max pressure is better and I am happier with my CNH disc drill at max pressure.

With your clay loam soil a Pillar may not work as X80 suggested, especially if you are toward the clay side. Could hit just the wheat stubble with some spikes, don't have to do every acre.
 
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