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Dry fert with floater?

40K views 64 replies 32 participants last post by  jdluvr 
#1 ·
Were thinking about getting a floater or big tow behind valmar to apply our 46-0-0 in the spring or fall. This would be completely new for us, we have always put it all down when seeding. Have used mrb's and now seedmaster double shoot. We are just wanting to make the seeding operation quicker and more efficeint.( less stops to fill, maybe not have to buy and pull around big aircarts etc.) Any advice on timing of application, pros/cons, type of used floater to look for etc. Would want to be able to do variable rate and possibly 2 products at once. Would be covering around 6000ac/yr. Thanks
 
#2 ·
Dont get crazy with trying to throw product to far. Placement past 50 feet is pointless, and go slow. The faster your ground speed the worse it can get. Steady speed... 10 mph. irflow would be better, or even 32% applied with a sprayer.. but sometimes urea is best.
 
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#4 ·
been looking at the same thing, best bang for your buck would be finding a floater in europe they are cheaper over there (especially right now with the dollar) shipping it here might be a little challenge if you don't know someone that moves over equipment.
we have valmar here in elie they are (i think) the only ones that build pull behind floaters, they are good and reliable but they are costly
 
#5 ·
Just pick up a Terragator air flow.It will do 70ft in wind at 12 mph unless roughBrad has a good used for sale here.He has several which he does custom app with.In our area air flows are going by the wayside since most are going spinners so they can do lime fert etc.Brads number is 519-485-1210.I think he has a multi bin as well but they did not ever do much in this area with them.
 
#6 ·
If it was me, I would take the money you are going to waste on a floater and purchase either a bigger air tank or something to improve the filling of your air cart like a cancade trailer with the conveyors on it. By floating all that product on you are doing nothing but setting yourself up for nitrogen losses.
 
#7 ·
When you switched from the mid row bander, where you can independantly set fert depth from seed depth you could get the N down 3" when seeding .5".

Anytime you place your fert at less than 3" you are settting you self up for fert loss, so you may as well broadcast, now if you are broadcasting or floating, or putting it down shallow, you should treat the N with agrotain.

I seen some guys west of pense going a couple weeks ago, floating right on top of the snow.

The saskatoon RB sale had a couple older floaters for dirt cheep.

As far a VR, im guesing the dirt cheap ones at rbs wouldnt have this.

The best time, from what I understand is fall, mostly because of logistics. The guys by pense (wigmores I think) were going right on top of 18" of snow. but thats on level ground, I dont think it would be effective on rolling land.
 
#10 ·
When you switched from the mid row bander, where you can independantly set fert depth from seed depth you could get the N down 3" when seeding .5".

Anytime you place your fert at less than 3" you are settting you self up for fert loss, so you may as well broadcast, now if you are broadcasting or floating, or putting it down shallow, you should treat the N with agrotain.

More bourgault research????

So 2.9" and I might as well broadcast, yet at 3 is perfectly fine????

Take a look, it looks like bull crap and smells like bull crap,

Chances are, this is bull crap.

Yes, I do have to agree there are losses with banded fertilizer, and under certain situations agrotain on banded fertilizer can save some of those losses. However, suggesting that fertilizer must be put 3" down or not at all is bad advise IMO
 
#8 ·
We have been floating fertilizer also ontop of the snow, but it has been sulphur fines. It has worked great because it melts through the snow very quickly. We still prefer though to get it done before the snow is on the ground. You can get away spreading sulphur because it is very mobile in your soil. I wouldn't want to chance spreading nitrogen in front of the airseeder unless it was raining right while you were doing it.
 
#11 ·
The guys by pense spreading are not wigmore,(I don't think wigmore even farms anymore) I know the guys that were out there, and they say they have done it like that for quit some time. And as far not banding it 3inches deep, that it is crazy. What you are saying is everyone not using MRBs is losing lots of nitrogen???

As far as buying bigger air tanks, we have 2 drills with 430 bu tanks, to go to 2 7950 BG would cost more than buying an almost new floater, would still have to buy bigger tractors. The way we fill seeders, we can do it in about 15 minutes, but it still wastes lots of time getting to were the truck is and back to were you left out.( with some larger fields you can't always have truck right were its needed.)

Anyway, as far as equipment goes what is out there and what are some of you guys using?
 
#23 ·
The way we fill seeders, we can do it in about 15 minutes, but it still wastes lots of time getting to were the truck is and back to were you left out.( with some larger fields you can't always have truck right were its needed.)
In reality, you would just be moving the inconvienience from the seeder to the spreader. You're still going to have to either make a lot of trips to the truck with product still in the spreader, or you will have to travel further to the truck with the spreader if you run it empty.

I thank everyone for the suggestions. Maybe the way we do it isn't so bad and slow. I don't like the idea of spreading N and losing a bunch. Maybe will have to put in a order for a couple BG 7950's for 2014, or another JD tank and pull 2. haha or save my money and stop a few extra times.
Way further ahead as you'll have the fertilizer placed where it needs to be instead of "hoping" for rain to get it into the zone. Or "hoping" the rain quits so you can spread without getting stuck.

IMO.
 
#12 ·
We had a Loral and a Terragator 8104 and just traded both off for a new JD 4940 with a box. Both had Air Max beds. I don't know what your price range is but if you are covering those amount of acres I'm assuming you won't want to spend too much. Which means you won't find a decent floater that doesn't need constant attention. Both of ours worked but it was always one thing or another that was breaking down between the 2. I think a Terragator would be a fine machine if they are new or close too it. I would look for a pull type one just for less hassle for those acres. I know you want booms but you don't need them. After watching the local fertilizer spread with their 4930s in wind no less, they still did as good as job as a boom. Don't have to worry about hitting anything with a boom or the boom plugging up in the manifold.
 
#14 ·
We now use mrb's to apply fertilizer while seeding. However, for many years prior to the air drill we floated on our blend and worked the fertilizer in with a vibrashank. Only time we suffered much loss was when we applied the fert in the fall. I would probably be a little nervous about floating on the fert without working it into the soil.
 
#16 ·
we had a floater hated it go with trailed machine floaters dont float they sink or buy a 1254 with dry box on down in the states but trailed would be your way forward but you need moisture for urea to work to get to plant if we could get 34pecent nitrogen then it would be ok but cant

as a agronomist told me broacasting in a dry year could bankrupt you
 
#17 ·
I think its a huge step backward to go from banding, no matter how inconvenient it may be, to broadcast urea. However I can understand that everything is a compromise and if you have assessed the loss of N efficiency and feel that is outweighed by convenience or seeding speed then listen to the guys that are telling you not to buy a boom machine.

There was never any reason for boom machines in the first place. Charlie Balmar is responsible for more grief in spreading dry fertilizer than any 2 others you might want to name. The biggest issue with spinner machines was marking and with GPS that is no longer any concern. A well adjusted spinner machine with a halfway competent operator will do every bit as uniform a job as an airboom with a fraction of the grief and at a fraction of the operating and capital cost. Especially so if all you are doing is spreading urea. When you get into blends there is a segregation argument that may favour the booms although even then I'd take my chances with the spinners.

And when you are doing your convenience vs efficiency calculations don't ever think the spreader is free. There's a reason why the custom guys charge you 5 or 7 bux an acre. If the guy running the spreader is also the guy selling the fertilizer then chances are he's breaking even on the app costs in order to sell the fertilizer. Don't ignore those very real costs.
 
#20 ·
When broadcasting before seeding how much of the urea will be covered by soil and how much will be laying on the surface? If it isn't buried and you don't have rain to wash it in the losses could be high. Why not spray on 28 percent liquid after seeding. At least half of the nitrogen is in the form that does not gas off as quick and you can use your sprayer as the applicator.
 
#21 ·
My neighbor and I went from knifing nh3 to floating urea for about 3 years to speedup seeding and now to mrb he uses urea l went back to nh3 . Yes banding slows things up but we had to up the n rate by 40 lbs to keep yields up losses were horrible on n with floating urea and hoping the drill is adequet incorporation. If you feel you are losing more to yield loss due to delayed seeding then I guess spreading may be your best option. I have a small operation 3000 acres total notill and banding works out for us.
 
#22 ·
I thank everyone for the suggestions. Maybe the way we do it isn't so bad and slow. I don't like the idea of spreading N and losing a bunch. Maybe will have to put in a order for a couple BG 7950's for 2014, or another JD tank and pull 2. haha or save my money and stop a few extra times.
 
#29 · (Edited)
We have been floating 28 for the last four years with our sprayer and have not seen the booms rot off. We try to wash them off as much as often as we can. So far we do not find we are not loosing the 28 when we apply it this way. We did use agritan last year to compare and saw no difference. We feel what we may lose to evaporation we gain in not overlapping as we are equipped with swath pro.
 
#34 ·
We found big losses with fall broadcasting but used to fall band with limited loss. We found broadcasting afte the crop ame up but it takes an extra truck and driver plus the floater operator maybe if you have lots of people run the drills longer or buy biger tanks? we dribble band 28 on our winter wheat in the spring the 28 is expensive though and rather than dribble band spring crops why not pull a liquid caddy if you want to go that route? its the cheapest way to get more acres per fill but 28 is most expensive form of nitrogen. Our sprayers atleast five years old and has no rust we store it inside and wash it after using it for nitrogen and after sprayimng periods (found some chemicals carrode and stain the paint more than 28). The problem with big carts is big weight and there crazy expensive 3.5X the cost of a new cnh 430 cart. My neighbour broadcasts his notrogen on wet years but admits its not the most efienct way to do it but with the carts only full of seed and phos sulfer they are able to sed in the wet on dry years the n goes down the mrbs
 
#35 ·
20 to 30% losses for fall applied are considered normal, even banded. Reason being that often you can run into situations where hard dry, or frozen soils will not seal properly. There is also movement with spring runoff... even banded will leach down or laterally with water movement.
 
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