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965B Transmission failure

35K views 60 replies 27 participants last post by  u-bet 
#1 ·
Just had a major explosion inside the Cat 16 speed that was possibly caused by failed thrust washers. The updates were done at 1800 hrs and now the transmission has a major failure at 4400 hrs. Oil changes and filters have been done and since I have owned the tractor the filters have been cut regularly and show nothing caught in the filters. Is this normal for these transmissions? I thought these were supposed to be almost bullet proof. When it blew up it was on the road at full speed. Is there a connection there to high speed and what appears to be thrust washer failure again??? Is there any expectation of some kind of help from Mother Agco since this is a failure of an issue that was a warranty update. This is very disappointing that the component that I trusted the most of the whole tractor has had a catastrophic $$$$$$ failure. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.
 
#49 ·
I can’t get it to copy so will just type it out. This is the Cat service publication SEBU 6250 and from page 17-18.

Commercial multigrade oils must meet the requirements of Cat TO-4(M) specs to be used in transmissions. Multigrade oils that use high molecular weight polymers as viscocity index improvers may lose the viscosity effectiveness. This effectiveness may be lost by the temporary shear of the polymer viscocity index improver. Permanent shear of polymer viscocity index improver may occur. These types of multigrade oils are not recommended for Caterpillar drive train compartments. The Cat TO-4M performance requirements include a test for the shear stability of multigrade oil.

I think it is worth checking your transmission oil to verify that it is one that meets the Cat TO-4 specs. I hope you have good luck with your TA-22!
 
#52 ·
So cat recommends just a straight 10w tdto oil in these transmissions? Not a 30w?
And it looks like they lump all there powershift transmissions together for oil recommendations? not a specific oil for a ta22 or a ta19 or whatever other models there are.
 
#60 ·
Hytran Ultra is an EP oil and is listed as a replacement for Cat TO-4. So you think it is straight grade 46? Agco 821XL does not seem to be listed as a TO-4 oil. 821XL is what Agco specifically gave me for the 965. I wish I had used the Hytran Ultra that I have in bulk in my shop.
 
#54 ·
Related question. In our Cat D8K, it calls for the now obsolete TO2 TDTO oil.

Found the replacement, but hardly anyone carries it, and it is expensive. Is there anything unique about these powershifts that they can't use a modern high quality trans hyd oil?
 
#56 · (Edited)
If you run the synthetics then Cat has no issue with multigrade TDTO or TO-4. Even in the books for my 7H Series II in 1995, where they get into detail about the recent change from TO-2, they list synthetic multigrade TDTO for the transmission in three grades, 0W20, 0W30 and 5W20 as options.
And if you go thru the SEBU TA posted, they list synthetic multigrade TDTO as well, the 0W20 is called TDTO Cold Weather and the other which I never did see a specific grade, was called TDTO TMS and looks like it has a very wide temp use range and carries a TO-4M spec.
 
#58 ·
Just curious if the newer ta 22 transmissions still have this issue. I was looking at a 965E model and have been told that the trany problem has been fixed by a bigger oil journal in the housing. Is this a salesman blowing smoke our is this actually correct. This dealer had replaced 3 trans in 8xx models but claimed the new one would not fail as it was fixed.
 
#59 ·
I guess time will tell on the updates. My 2008 965B had transmission updates done in the first couple of years but while it was apart from a major failure at road speed about 4 years ago, there was something about drilling out oil holes to increase flow. I have been following what is going on with all this and this past winter came across the above info in this thread and questions on the 821XL oil that Agco recommends but seems to not be a straight grade oil meeting Cat TO-4 specs. Versatile uses a factory fill on this transmission of Shell Donax TD which meets Cat TO-4 specs and they have not had the number of failures as Agco. Is it the oil??? Other than that I loved the tractor.
 
#61 ·
Thanks, Transaxial I've only seen the 8xx with the transmission failures and I think they were all going down the road as well, this was some years back that the dealer was replacing the tranny in the crawlers but they said the new ones fixed the issue. I just think it had to be a oil or speed issue, so the too small of a oil journal made sense at hi speed it couldn't keep things cool. I haven't heard of any 4wd units with failures, as all the ones locally are on scrapers and have had no problems, the local cat dealer had 2 965b's as rental units with close to 10,000 hrs on both without any issues, so it's kinda of a mystery. However for a while I believe that Versatile didn't offer a PS in anything big that took a ta 22, just the smaller ones that took the ta 19 and now I believe PS is standard in all their tractors, so maybe Cat got the 22 right?
 
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