We currently have a case 8230 and am very disappointed in the grain loss issue, particularly barley
Just thinking about going to a new holland but have ran red for basically 30 years
does anyone have any problem with the new holland combines and what combine they would prefer?
Iv have changed colors this coming season from a 7230 to a 9.90 hopefully that will solve my problems have and there's a few farmers here done the same thing. Where are you come from?
I could tell you what I think the advantages of red over yellow are but SWMan would be a good guy to talk to after his experience with both. Around here I think the yellow salesmen are almost equating converting a red guy to shooting fish in a barrel. A lot of the initial reason for the change I think does come from the pathetic excuse of a dealership Rocky Mountain Equipment is but I think as far as the machine goes I haven't talked to anyone that's regretted making the switch.
The advantages of the red combine is simplicity and, of course, the reversing rotor. This only makes a difference if you are plugged though, and neither of my CR9090's plugged the rotors this past year(in some extremely tough conditions). I have the DSP and only plugged feeder houses maybe 7-8 times all season, 9230's would plug 7-8 times per hour most days... Rear ladder and fuel filler access is better on CaseIH. Easier to clean RH cab window! Less daily maintenance.
As far as official advantages of the CR combine it would be in order of importance: 1. Lower grain loss, 2. Better chopping and spreading(especially in soybeans) 3. Less downtime 4. Better reverser(although rarely needed) 5. Less fuel use per acre 6. Better in tough conditions.
I am probably missing some stuff but that is a quick list. If I was looking for a CR I would want DSP feeder house, Twin pitch rotors and make sure it is an elevation combine built in BELGIUM!!! Not sure if the AU guys have that option but here we do. Very poor quality recently on all NA made combines. The Belgium factory is in a league of it's own and this is a pretty well known fact at a local level here, and I believe at a corporate level as well.
For me it wasn't even close. I would note that the flagship CaseIH combines that I used to run didn't give much trouble either(2007-2010 vintage). I think when they ramped up production at the Nebraska plant in recent years, more HP increases to that design and constant cheapening of components has had a toll on the reliability of them. Seems JD suffers from same problem. Claas and Belgium NH combines would be my only brands I would even consider now unless something changes.
Only downtime all year was a bad thermostat and some shear-bolts on concave. Once we put metric shear-bolts in place of standard ones on concave we had no issues.:smile:
Very interested opinion SWMan! Iv had a 2012 7230 it done 1450 rotor hours and never had any down time but i have a lot of trouble with grain loss back of the rotor same with everyone with a single rotor machine. Just a few weeks ago iv ordered a 9.90 with DFR, twin pitch rotors, adjustable rotor vines cover plate and all the CR combines we get in OZ we can only get it out of Belgium.
I am not delusional to think a New Holland won't break down, it's just a matter of time. However after spending some time in them and around them servicing it is very obvious that the components are better quality and they are put together better.
Another notable difference is the drive system. Much better torque on the NH and throttles back in transport. I don't like that mine only go 18.5mph but I gather that is specific to 2014 models and has been increased on new units.
Just make sure your Belgium built cr wasn't built on a Friday afternoon like mine must have been,first season I had a failed rotor variator seal, unload auger gearbox seize up due to having no oil from the factory and a couple of sealed bearings fail aswell, a few other minor issues too. Whatever you do put a macdon draper on it and not a new holland one, I had a heap of feeding problems and know of plenty more people having the same problems
Could not agree more. I disagree with SWman. on just about everything. I have worked out of what i believe to be his local NH dealership. I have seen plenty of CR failures. They should come with a quick eject button in the cab for removing the feeder house and rotors. seems they both have to come off and out more often then fuel goes in. But you also have to run a machine for more than 200 hours before trading it to see just how..... we will say well built a machine is
I went from yellow to green. I miss the yellow every single day. If you have a good NH dealer in your area you have nothing to worry about. CR combines are very good at having a great quality sample in most crops. Grain loss is also very low and amongst the best on the market. Isn't that what we all should want out of a combine?
I'm from the upper north in south Australia where we usually have very hot and dry conditions during harvest and the rotor loss in barley is killing me, doesn't matter what I try I can't get the loss down
A lot of people around this area are red because of the good service and realibitily of the red but lately there's beginning to be a fair few people going to yellow
Has anyone had both a yellow and red in barley? And is there a big difference in grain loss?
Not sure why, a S690 won't do anymore except puke it out the back faster than a S680. Nobody even buys the big one around here and we have tough conditions and heavy crop.
I attached the summary. There is all of the weighs on a chart at back of booklet but the print is so small I can't make it readable. Interesting to note that in those summaries there is some pan tests omitted, one where the loss is 14X higher on the JD! Footnote says those tests were at a "fixed speed" of 3.3mph. Not sure why that disqualifies them but it could have been way worse for the JD...
K-MAN it has something to do with being from Europe. You would think it could be changed with software but they keep telling me no. I don't do a lot of roading so it's not the end of the world but still annoying.
Yes, it was a interesting read of a independent study, also note PAMI requests the report not be point selected, only printed in its entirety.
Not sure how bad they mean by the poor canola swathes, obviously they elected to use the data anyway.
Checkout figure 5-1, those are piss poor swathes period imo.
That 9.5% def use in the wheat with the CR sticks out. Must be it's instantaneous readings under very consistent and high load that causes the high use.
The relativity low rotor speed in canola with the CR puzzled me until you read rotor speed reduced to prevent overloading chaffer and subsequent losses related to that action.
I will take PAMI to task on one thing, fuel stated as kg/l, should be l/t where less is always better, same as vehicle fuel ratings now, it's also how Claas does it.
They do do it right with l/ha, why change format?
Overall, a good study mostly done during the best part of the day.
The Deere actually was closer than I expected it might be.
While you're on the topic of things flying (or not) out the back of the combine....
I have heard that red machines have a habit of throwing chunks of their straw choppers through the oil pan. :sFun_whistle:
They've all got their good & their "trying" bits on them
As far as I can remember, there has never been a machine that I have run - & that's every colour apart from silver & lime green - that I haven't had to modify or make bits & pieces for, to get them to perform better than when they come straight out of the packaging box!
I'm sure I'm not alone in that fact.
JD STS are not pleasant to run in barley with standard JD bits & pieces in them. Nor are they pleasant in hard thrashing (high screening) wheat. Neither is the Case, neither is the NH CR, although the CR is more forgiving.
Most of the NA built machines are made for corn, corn, corn & beans ...... cereals are way down the list. Everyone knows that. CR's are made more cereal dominant so it's hardly surprising that a CR would out perform most other NA colours in cereals & oil seeds.
CR still needs a few mods in them to make them perform much better than the package box version & when that is achieved, along with the correct settings ..... & an "operator" on the seat - then they will really perform.
Big CR's are probably the highest capacity cereal machines currently on the market ..... oh, yeah oops .... & those lime green monsters as well (sorry Don) but IMO, the others can be made to perform much better than standard. Even the lime greens need a few mods in them as well to gain improved performance ...... eh Don?
Big CR's are probably the highest capacity cereal machines currently on the market ..... oh, yeah oops .... & those lime green monsters as well (sorry Don) but IMO, the others can be made to perform much better than standard. Even the lime greens need a few mods in them as well to gain improved performance ...... eh Don?
I will completely agree that "fine" tuning for specific conditions can often lead to benefits Rod.
We I also suspect have wildly different conditions at times, what may work well for you might be terrible for me.
But fundamentally Claas has the head start in my conditions Rod and especially in canola where the 2016/2015 780's have the additional hydraulic rotor covers putting Class completely in a class by itself in canola.
And...you've poked the bear Rod, in North America Claas is yucky yellow and black, my campaign for the proper color worldwide makes Donald Trump look like Walt Disney!
As a guy that enjoys his green Kool-aid, the only thing I would comment on about the PAMI report is directly from page 1 where it states that New Holland reps were there to set their combine, but there were no reps from John Deere to assist in setting their combine. I'm not saying it would have changed the results, but in my mind the comparison wasn't quite fair.
That being said I would love to see standard testing on all the combines, tractors, seeding tools, sprayers etc. PAMI could play a great role in giving balanced and fair comparisons.
As a guy that enjoys his green Kool-aid, the only thing I would comment on about the PAMI report is directly from page 1 where it states that New Holland reps were there to set their combine, but there were no reps from John Deere to assist in setting their combine. I'm not saying it would have changed the results, but in my mind the comparison wasn't quite fair.
I hear ya but I doubt it would have made any difference.
Having said that, why the 850 rotor speed in canola on the Deere?
That normal? Strikes me as quite high.
In the actual PAMI test days, shoe, walker/rotor and unthreshed losses would have been separately measured and reported, these tests here are far less sophisticated.
When I worked Crappy Mountain Equipment back in 2012-2013... I was lead to believe that the Case and NH combines shared the same chassis and sieve systems?
Also there is a third red combine on the market now....:sFun_whistle:
We switched from a 9070 to 9230. Both are good machines. However 9230 has several advantages. One being stone trap system, a must if doing beans and peas (even if fields are rolled). Next simplicity, 9230 is shaped so it collects next to no dust around engine and rad. Also all major drives are cvt transmission, change fluids when required other than that maintainance free. Very few belts on the 9230, 4 I think total. The cr's have that POS conveyor belt system to feed the chopper. Lots of trouble with that. Also cr has the shear pin to drop concaves if u get a wad in the machine. Well u have to dump before u can change it, cih just reverse rotor but most of the time the cih wouldn't plug where that shear would break.
Overall we are much happier with the 9230 over the 9070. Perhaps grain loss is due to wrong concave modules or just some tweaking, as we have not experienced much difference.
I am still waiting for NH to bring out a new model to surpass the Claas! They have the capability to do it. You just need to put in two 24" rotors - capacity gains will be immense. The limit on a single rotor combine is 30" rotor and that will limit the capacity of that combine. If you try to increase that size, it will be difficult to thresh cleaner or you will start cracking way more! As well, you have a more difficult time in sieve load distribution. That was my biggest issue with red combines. Should I drive faster or slower? - that changes where the product drops out of your concave. If on a flat level piece of ground, you can find the sweet spot. Put it into hills and ravines where ground speed is dictated by terrain and your losses will go up. I like the Class for their massive separation drums at the back of the machine as the product distribution coming through the front is irrelevant to sieve load placement!
I don't know very much about a Claas but I do know they have more capacity at the high end. However they just haven't caught on well and resale lags as bad as it does with NH!
I don't know very much about a Claas but I do know they have more capacity at the high end. However they just haven't caught on well and resale lags as bad as it does with NH!
I guess it depends where you are, Claas combines are pretty popular around here. I would guess that there have been more Lexions sold around here in the last five years than either green or red, and I don't think there are any NH combines around.
I'm not sure on resale value though. It wasn't really an issue for us, because we plan on keeping ours for ten years.
Hope you never combine something hard to harvest like tough canary straw late in the fall with a yellow combine. You will be an experienced concave shear bolt replacer. Brother in law demoed one and he said it snapped bolts every swath. When it gets time to harvest difficult crops that require some hard threshing this is not the machine. Capacity may be great when good going but when you ask it to get the job done in a bad year you will be disappointed.
Canary straw is ugly to combine but have you ever run a yellow one? We have never had a lot of problems with the shear bolts...yes we break some but we combine lots of tough ugly straw with ours and it's not high on the list of complaints with the combine.
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