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S67: Limiting factor in wheat with a stripper head

11K views 63 replies 15 participants last post by  dpilot83 
#1 ·
For us it seems to be the shoe for two years in a row. Is that to be expected?

Currently have the chaffer set at 22 and the sieve set at 15. Fan choke all the way open. This is hard red wheat in NW KS. Anytime we push 1,100 bushels per hour we have a fair amount of loss behind the chaffer.

Accelerator rolls are orange with about 100 hours on them and they're in excellent shape.

We hired a custom crew that runs Gleaners this year as well. Their S67 seems to be capable of 25% more than ours. There are two things they're doing differently:

1. They are running their head 6" higher than we are running ours and therefore are likely taking less straw in. They are also generally running about 50 RPM slower on the stripper head rotor which also takes less straw in. I think they're leaving more wheat in the heads in the field because of it.

2. They do not have a dent in their fan shroud where the feederhouse door was violently forced open. When I bought my combine I noticed this and talked to the Lang Diesel combine specialist about it. He didn't think the dent would cause problems but a I wonder if it's changing airflow characteristics in the shoe and causing issues that way.

Any thoughts on reasonable capacity expectations and settings and so on? Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
Sounds like you have your chaffer, sieve, and air all set right. But if this dent has the shroud pushed close to the fan then it is the same as closing the air down. Running a stripper header you need all the air in the combine you can get. I would sure get that dent taken care of. Make sure none of the fan blades are twisted or dented. That is also the same as putting a door across the fan. Atleast that is where I would start.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I took care of the dent yesterday afternoon but it was too wet to harvest.

The dent was much higher than the fan itself. There is a shroud that directs airflow above the fan. The way I accessed it is I laid a piece of plywood down on the chaffer and crawled in there with a hammer and a 1.25" chunk of round bar that was about 2' long that I had for a project.

The plastic fingers hanging down at the front of the chaffer are where I stuck my bar through. I used the bar as a punch to knock the dent out. It went out surprisingly easily.

I really don't think that was my problem but I guess we'll see if anything changes when we get going.
 
#3 ·
1. They are running their head 6" higher than we are running ours and therefore are likely taking less straw in. They are also generally running about 50 RPM slower on the stripper head rotor which also takes less straw in. I think they're leaving more wheat in the heads in the field because of it.
While header height is important would hood angle compensate somewhat for that?
50 rpm slower then what?
What ground speeds?

I've run a SR just long enough to know it's as much a art as a science.
At least a Gleaner isn't limited by feeder drive torque.
 
#4 ·
dpilot83 - Any chance you have standard wide space concaves and other combine has narrow spaced ones that Gleaner recommends for stripper headers(question mark) my computer is giving me a hyphenated E when I try to do a question mark!
I find the narrow spaced concaves lessons the shoe load in wheat and canola
 
#6 ·
Very small changes in the air delivery system can make huge productivity changes in any combine. Sometimes it can be nothing, sometimes a total killer. Back in the '70s there was the "combine Guru" ("Combine Settings for Better Harvest"...anybody else remember that book?) who spent more time on airflow than about anything else. I followed his instructions to move the fan blades out 1/4" on my 7720, and wow did that improve chaffer/sieve thru-put.

Basically: FIX THE DENT. It may do nothing, it may improve crop flow 25%
 
#7 ·
#8 ·
I have only done durum with mine and I can get up 1400 bushels an hour. Ground speed and yield of the crop are limiting factors. I can run the head low and the rotor fast enough to take enough straw in to bog the straw chopper down. You could blank some of the concave off. I made my concave so I can blank off six bars. And I brought the front of the concave up 1/4 inch
 
#9 ·
Well less straw definitely would lighten up the load so if ya can get it all by raising up that would be a good bet, as well as flatfoot stated narrow concaves would offer a huge improvement if your not already running them.

The next step if your in place there and you would like to continue cutting lower I would consider an air foil chaffer, I know the majority of the Gleaner boys have a fear of the air foil but it does work, heck, our old 1480's would be scrap iron without them. A Gleaner with a stripper head would be an excellent candidate because of the dimensions and air flow capacity.

Also just thought about it are you running stainless fingers or plastic? and was that any different from your harvesters? The plastic will take in considerably less straw
 
#11 · (Edited)
All of our wheat is continuous. Our worst continuous wheat behind wheat field so far has been 61 bu/acre. Our only continuous wheat behind corn field so far looks like it will yield in the low 50's. We haven't gotten to the fields that we expect to be really good yet. Best I've heard on continuous wheat so far is 103 so we're a far cry from that so far. Hopefully we'll get within 15 or 20 bushels on that on some fields.
 
#14 ·
If this doesn't work (and I don't think it will), I really think I have a problem of not enough air.

LDI is telling me that people who are using stripper headers and people who are cutting wheat really high with straight heads are having airflow this year because the wheat is so tall. They are recommending opening the leaf screen down below and letting it swing. The weight of the door swinging forward is keeping the straw pushed forward enough that the fan can get enough air to do its job.

To be honest, I'm a bit dubious about that but it's easy enough to try so I will.

Yesterday I took the access plates off the bottom and looked at the fan itself. Everything looked clean in there and I didn't see any damage.

I am going to thoroughly examine my air choke. I looked it over yesterday while it was open and compared it to the custom harvesters S67 and it looked about the same to me but LDI told me to close it all the way down and look for junk in there and clean it out and recalibrate and then try at wide open again.

Finally, I'm going to compare fan speed readouts on his machine vrs mine and see what that says.

I guess I don't know what else I can do to make more air. Does anyone else have any thoughts on that? Thanks.
 
#15 ·
By the way, the reason I'm running lower and faster on the stripper head rotor is because I don't like seeing unstripped wheat that was either too low or two tough to go into the header.

To be honest though he's losing a lot less that's still in the heads than I am painting the ground with the chaffer. I also think he has less header loss because he's running faster and making a more effective seal with a wall of wheat than I am.
 
#16 ·
On the R's you could change the fan drive pulley to make it faster. Maybe that's an option?

Don't assume the other header is leaving grain in the heads. It may look like a full or half head but you need to squeeze it or check it for grain. His keyholes might also be worn more than yours which would leave the odd piece of head still on the stalk.
You really should slow your stripper down to its slowest rpm or till it does leave the odd head unstripped.
I always run them at their slowest, and no matter what yield, or ground speed, they still strip 99%, even In Durum. But I have never seen or done your red wheat. It could be a tough one.

Had a stripper on the old R72 once and surprise surprise, it would run out of HP before the losses got untidy.

Crazy idea, have you tried going faster in ground speed? Maybe you need more grain on the sieves............?
 
#20 ·
That is a great question, thanks. I had not thought about that at all. I'll try and compare the two today.

Just so I know what you're talking about for sure though, you're talking about the whole shoe, not just the chaffer or the sieve? I know the sieve has three different locations to put the height of the front of it. I don't think the chaffer is adjustable so I'm assuming you're talking about an adjustment for the entire shoe frame?

That leads to other questions I had not previously considered. He has singles, I have duals. I don't remember what size his rear tires are but mine are pretty big. I wonder if the entire combine is at a different angle?
 
#21 ·
Are you blowing it out or chaffing it out? Is it showing up on the monitor screen? Cut off under fan should be 1 to 1 1/4" from a blade. This is not adjustable but should be checked. Cut off above fan should be uniform and 5/8 to 3/4" inch all the way across. This is not adjustable on sides but the center two securing location are shim or washer adjustable. There was a far number of machines where the factory did very poor job at getting this right. There was a bulliton out on machines in question. Also be sure you have full range of choke movement. Choke should be against top limit screws when all the way open. I have had to cut and modify the lever from actuator to get full choke on a number of machines. A quick but temporary fix is loosen the two 1/4" bolts, hold to full choke, and tighten the bolts. Recalbrate choke after you modify the lever. Lastly have a look with light between chaffer and sieve. Look all the way forward to just below front of chaffer. Is there a castle shaped iron hanging down into air stream? I am about sure the were removed at some point. I have removed chaffer and the bent them to run parralel with chaffer and others have just removed them. Also you may lower the sieve a hole to get more air to chaffer. Per by accident on a bench testing last summer the operator had chaffer about closed and sieve wide open. Wires were backwards for the display. The machine had the perforated grain pan. It was beyond remarkable how little loss we had with chaffer closed. I be became quite convinced at that point that the perforated pan is doing very good job a preseparation the crop
 
#23 · (Edited)
Are you blowing it out or chaffing it out?
I'm pretty sure I'm chaffing it out. It does show up on the monitor. There is a pretty decisive line between where the chaffer went over and everything else. It seems like it's coming more out of the center and right side of the chaffer in general than the left.

Is it showing up on the monitor screen?
Yes.

Cut off under fan should be 1 to 1 1/4" from a blade. This is not adjustable but should be checked.
What do you mean by the cutoff under the fan? I've already forgotten what it looks like from my examination yesterday, but if I remember right if you work your way forward and up from the bottom of the fan housing, the fan housing stops when you get to the front of the fan. Are you saying if you measure from that lip to the fan blades at the front of the fan, I should measure 1 to 1.25"?

Cut off above fan should be uniform and 5/8 to 3/4" inch all the way across.
Are you saying when the door is all the way open the distance between the door and the fan should be 5/8" to 3/4" all the way across?

This is not adjustable on sides but the center two securing location are shim or washer adjustable. There was a far number of machines where the factory did very poor job at getting this right. There was a bulliton out on machines in question.
So you're saying the inner sections of the fan have some sort of a hangar bearing? I'll look at the parts diagram to try to figure that out before I go look at it.

Also be sure you have full range of choke movement. Choke should be against top limit screws when all the way open.
To me it looked like the door was limited by something that looked like a rivet but I'll look that over again. If I was looking at the right limiting device, the fan door was at least a half inch from that limiting device. The fan choke was a little floppier on mine compared to his as well.

I have had to cut and modify the lever from actuator to get full choke on a number of machines. A quick but temporary fix is loosen the two 1/4" bolts, hold to full choke, and tighten the bolts. Recalbrate choke after you modify the lever.
I will look all of this over very carefully.

Lastly have a look with light between chaffer and sieve. Look all the way forward to just below front of chaffer. Is there a castle shaped iron hanging down into air stream? I am about sure the were removed at some point. I have removed chaffer and the bent them to run parralel with chaffer and others have just removed them.
What is/was this castle shaped iron supposed to do? I'll look for it.

Also you may lower the sieve a hole to get more air to chaffer.
Mine is in the middle hole right now. I may try putting that in the bottom hole. Opening the sieve seems to be the biggest thing I can do to reduce loss. I can only assume this is because it's allowing more air through to the chaffer.

Per by accident on a bench testing last summer the operator had chaffer about closed and sieve wide open. Wires were backwards for the display. The machine had the perforated grain pan. It was beyond remarkable how little loss we had with chaffer closed. I be became quite convinced at that point that the perforated pan is doing very good job a preseparation the crop
Is the perforated grain pan something I can add to my machine? I would like more capacity in corn as well and the shoe was the limiting factor there as well. By grain pan I think you're referring to the pan that the grain hits when it comes through the accelerator rolls? It's stair-stepped? Mine is not perforated.

Thanks for all of your thoughts.
 
#26 ·
I started the year out with less air and it was doing terrible. To me it seems like anything that increases airflow to the chaffer makes the loss better. The only two things I can quickly do to increase airflow to the chaffer is open the sieves or open the fan choke.

Our custom harvester is running his fan choke all the way open as well.
 
#28 ·
I have done that but it was last year. In that case it was not just the cascade pan, it was the entire chaffer that was covered and it was not even. We tried moving cover plates into different patterns on the rotor to make the distribution more even with pretty much 0 success.

I'll try to find a picture of how it looked last year.
 
#29 ·
Yes the lip that is closest to fan blades when viewing threw the round holes under fan is the splitter clearance. I should of labled that as splitter clearance.

Just in front of choke pivot is the cutooff for the air getting directed to passage under accelerator rolls. It has little cuts in it to be sure it won't contact the fan heads that support the fan blades. You will see two locations where bolts are securing the center area of cut off.

This is a little tricky to adjust amount of washers or length of spacers you are not able to see. If you find this off we can go threw it then.
Yes what you call a door is the choke. There are a couple screws protruding threw from the outside and the ckoke should basically touch them when ate full air.

The castle shaped deal was installed in 1996 when we got the long shoe. Not sure of the reasoning behind it.

I am not positive you can get in bottom hole without removing the support or might I say guides at center bottom of sieve.

Are you seeing yield vari as per shoe is filling up when the loss monitor show problem to comes and goes?
 
#31 ·
Are you seeing yield vari as per shoe is filling up when the loss monitor show problem to comes and goes?
Dad thinks variability in yields is part of the problem. I feel like I'm driving at as speed that is far enough under the capacity that I should have that a large bump in yields should not overload anything.

Me personally, I have not seen huge spikes on the yield monitor that are causing any of this but maybe that's what's going on. That would also not explain why it's not happening on the custom harvesters machine.
 
#32 ·
We run uphill and downhill so our shoe angle is always changing so I wouldn't think a couple degrees would make a great difference since the accelerator rolls are directing the wheat to the front. I haven't been around a stripper header so not sure of their characteristics. How clean is your bin sample? If clean maybe you have too many blanks on the concave over threshing material putting more through the cage and onto the shoe. Take out a blank and see how that works if clean sample anyway.
 
#39 ·
Custom guys have all forward bars. I still have two reverse bars on the separation half of the machine.

Not sure on helical arrangement. I've looked at mine when I had the rotor out but I didn't really realize it could be arranged differently,

I've read some about sweeps but haven't done enough studying to claim to know anything about them. I think khigerd tried to explain them to me once as well.

I guess to me those all seem like adjustments you would make if you were having a threshing issue rather than a cleaning issue. Are you saying I may be running too much stuff through the accelerator rolls rather than out the end of the rotor and am therefore overloading the shoe?
 
#38 ·
Back before long shoe in 1996 we had full exposer of air to chaffer. If you laid a straight edge on bottom panel diricting air under chaffer you would not the sieve is not at all in direct air flow. This is very different than the long shoe setup. I think you can lower sieve to bottom hole by removing guide rest at mid bottom sieve to get a little closer to original setup. For for whatever reason the sieve was moved up into airstream. We have not had to move for any reason but it could be espesially good for you stripper head operation. Might be fine for more than that. We drilled and let down front of sieve on the old conventionals to match the short shoes of rotories and bingo no problem with crop running off back of shoe when going up hill. I believe this is what Ray Stuckle suggested for the conventioal Gleaners. He had nothing but good to say about the Gleaner rotors and the design threwout. He just did not have any suggestions for improving on that early Gleaner rotary setups.
 
#46 ·
Just a suggestion. When I first started running a stripper head on my 96 R62 I had **** with a dirty grain sample and grain loss behind combine. Happened to throw the spreader belt once and notice wheat all over the spreader. Turns out that it was all to do with the threshing in the combine rotor and not the shoe at all. #1. The cylinder clearance had not been zeroed and when it was on "zero" it was actually closer to being on 2. Its absolutely imperative that the clearance be as tight as possible. We tightened clearance until it rubbed and then backed it off just a hair. That's how I run it now. #2 This year I was having the same problem and realized I had forgotten to adjust the front of the concave. On my combine there is a min/mid/max adjustment on the front that we widen up to mid to harvest corn and choke down closer to min to strip wheat. Because there is not as much material when stripping if the rotor is not adjusted correctly (even with filler bars) you will have unthreshed heads falling out of the concave and into the ace rolls. Some of it will thresh in ace rolls, some will thresh out in the chopper and get tossed around by the spreader, and some will go in the bin. It will make you want to throw a match in it. I hope this might help you. Good luck!!!
 
#51 ·
If the fan choke not opening all of the way is likely my primary problem, what's the best way to resolve it? I'm thinking about taking the lever off the side of the combine, making a cut in it with my vertical band saw that's deep enough that I can bend it by hand, then bending it down and welding the resulting gap back up. Will that method cause any problems?
 
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