Think I'm getting this setting thing worked out on my 780! - The Combine Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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Think I'm getting this setting thing worked out on my 780!

This mainly involves swathed canola but fundamentally applies perhaps to other crops.

I run a Sunnybrook cylinder/concave, the cylinder has what Sunnybrook now calls "Goose Feet", basically they are angled paddles on the center of the cylinder meant to aid in the splitting of residue into the two rotors.
In canola I also run rotor covers eliminating shoe overload.
I run the cylinder as fast as possible without cracking, depending on seed moisture anywhere from 600 to 800.

I've experimented with common concave clearance settings right down to as tight as it will go, 7mm.
It feeds through terrible (comparatively speaking) at 30mm and progressively improves right up to 7mm where it finally starts to drawing marginally more power so I settled on 10mm.

So I get to thinking, if it draws no more power and with rotor covers in it doesn't overload the chaffer it's also is much less likely to plug the impeller even at engine power limit and up to 40 tonnes an hour.
So I now run 10mm peas/barley/canola and 7mm for wheat.
A season and a half now, in all the conditions I've came across, so far, so good!

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 10:06 AM
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10 mm for canola??? Your crazy.

Show a pic of the sample. Your chopper won't be over worked. There won't be a piece of stalk longer than an inch coming off the rotors.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 10:39 AM
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Hey Don. What are the rest of your settings?
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 10:46 AM
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where is the advantage of running the combine aggressively ? we try to keep the straw as long as possible, for two reasons its easier to sort grain in the cleaning areas and the less damage to the grain your selling its more money in your pocket,
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 10:50 AM
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Boles Crazy ? Likely so, regardless:

With the design of cylinder he is using, most customers looks at the mass on the circumference, staggered bars and surmise those features are responsible for the difference in performance. Not so.

The cross section of rasp bar is where the biggest difference lies. "rub bar" vs "rasp bar" is where the biggest change in performance is attributed. Don is using a simple "gear pump" vs the standard "centrifugal pump" that the factory equips the machine with.

By definition, a gear pump is positive displacement and a centrifugal pump not so. A gear pump will move material over the concave without throwing it against the grate to the extent a centrifugal pump will. We've tested this by installing load cells on the four corners of the concave to assess interaction. At ANY given feedrate of material with identical clearances, the gear pump reduces the cylinder/concave load by 38-41%..that's pretty linear!

So by closing down tighter, Don is amplifying the gear pump tendency. At any snaphot, there is probably 40% less material between the concave and cylinder. That allows better separation over the concave which makes up ground on the centrifugal pumps' advantage of throwing grain outward. In large seed, that can be problematic in causing damage.

At about 700 lbs /minute feedrate, the 800 lb enclosed cylinder becomes weight neutral. (Force up on cylinder equals force down on concave). The criticism of a heavier cylinder being hard on bearings is complete nonsense. Go sit under an apple tree like Newton did.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Cool In my conditions

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Originally Posted by jimbobobaroo View Post
Hey Don. What are the rest of your settings?
Whatever CA likes, lol.
Running smooth large oval pressed metal APS concave, I've run it open and closed Jim, there has to be a difference but I've never been able to really tell.
Running CA on cleaning only, separating runs the rotors too fast and keeps closing the doors, I'm on wheat now but when I go back to canola I'll use 6 manually covered sections, open hydraulic sections and 600 rpm for a start.
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Originally Posted by johndeere1 View Post
10 mm for canola??? Your crazy.

Show a pic of the sample. Your chopper won't be over worked. There won't be a piece of stalk longer than an inch coming off the rotors.
The votes of confidence start rolling in!

Funny you should say that, the odd spot this year has green weeds in the crop, volunteer RR canola in wheat a good example, I'm running stationary hammers completely out and in slow speed to prevent bridging over chopper hammers.
Running with 2 CR9090's and an CX8080, as clean or cleaner than all of them. Especially in tough wheat.
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Originally Posted by hector View Post
where is the advantage of running the combine aggressively ? we try to keep the straw as long as possible, for two reasons its easier to sort grain in the cleaning areas and the less damage to the grain your selling its more money in your pocket,
I hate unplugging the impeller and enjoy changing impeller belts even less.
I'm too lazy and it's too unproductive.
When you have the right amount of covers on the rotors shoe depth will be very minimal and loss near zero off of it regardless of how cylinder is run.
mb farmer drilled that into me and I thank him for it.
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Originally Posted by SunnybrookW&M View Post
Boles Crazy? Likely so

At about 700 lbs /minute feedrate, the 800 lb enclosed cylinder becomes weight neutral. (Force up on cylinder equals force down on concave). The criticism of a heavier cylinder being hard on bearings is complete nonsense. Go sit under an apple tree like Newton did.
Morning to you too, ha ha!
I actually like being called crazy, hey, at least somebody's thinking of ya.

Your gonna love my calculations SB, after your balancing story there.
MOST of the wheat crops in the area this year are very, very low MOG/G ratio, using 0.5 MOG/G I can pretty consistently run 24 kg/sec through but say your rolling along on this thin wheat, pull into one those draws where there is way, way more straw and grain, you know the kind where you get
MAIN DRIVE BELT SLIP and
SPEED, CRITICAL OF UNITS
messages on CEBIS, anyway for a three to five second period well over 50kg per second would be getting put through and 5 seconds later you rolling along normal again no plugs or dramas as the ozzies call it.
I thank, in order, MacDon, Sunnybrook and Claas when all that happens!

Last edited by Don Boles; 09-25-2015 at 01:02 PM. Reason: One wrong word
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 11:34 AM
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I don't think don is crazy at all. We have the sunny brook cylinder and concave also. We are finding that you can have a lot tighter concave lower cylinder speeds with a much cleaner less damaged sample then you could with a normal cylinder setup. Also finding with peas ,wheat and fabbas so far no canola done here yet but the straw is far less damaged then conventional cylinder. Baling up lots this year and very surprised how intact the straw is compared to other years and this year straw here is very very short. It's hard to tell this year but I think we are using a lot less power then we would have with conventional cylinder. Will get a better idea I canola.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 03:04 PM
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Interesting. The Sunnybrook cylinder/concave is definately something I would like to try. Are you using any concave filler plates?

I have the standard Class cylinder and concave. Was having trouble with whitecaps on durum.

Had 2 filler plates in and whitecaps were pretty high for my standards on Durum and fairly decent on Wheat.

Put in a 3rd filler plate and Durum whitecaps were better in durum during heat of the day, but not so good mornings/evenings. Wheat was real good all around with 3 in.

Put a 4th filler plate in and now Durum is very clean in all conditions. Was able to open up concave to 12mm till I started to see some whitecaps. That was just a test as I normally run 7mm.

I know some guys don't run any concave filler plates at all.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 11:16 PM
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Drylandfarmer do you run ITS bars?
Curious if you think you would see more splits in peas or lentils with 4 filler strips in.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-26-2015, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 9750saskatchewan View Post
Drylandfarmer do you run ITS bars?
Curious if you think you would see more splits in peas or lentils with 4 filler strips in.
Yes I do run the ITS bars and the keystock grates, aps closed when on Durum/wheat.

Have not done peas yet with the 4 in yet, but I'm thinking there are a pretty high percentage of peas that go out through the APS with the big smooth grates, as they thresh so easily.

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