Ever use ground pressure sensing for auto header height with a MacDon? - Page 3 - The Combine Forum
 6Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
HI!
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Three Hills/Trochu, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,701
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 4446 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by challenger View Post
When i change from Cereals to canola i only put the gaugewheels a hole lower .the rest i set with weight or tableangle.

I NEVER touch springs on Adapter !!
Sounds good, looking forward to another practise change.
Thank you!

Thanks for asking question about contact weight SC, made me think of this thread.

Don Boles is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 10:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West of Winnipeg
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Boles View Post
Sounds good, looking forward to another practise change.
Thank you!

Thanks for asking question about contact weight SC, made me think of this thread.

NP !
Only takes like another 10 months to try out lol.

challenger is offline  
post #23 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
HI!
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Three Hills/Trochu, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,701
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 4446 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by challenger View Post
NP !
Only takes like another 10 months to try out lol.
Well, only about 7 and 1/2 on average, mid August peas generally although August 8th at plus 35 this year.
Don Boles is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 06:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Jeff-C-IL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Hmm- interesting conversation. I'll need to comment on this one.

The neat thing about the Claas is its really the only combine to "stack" the lift pressure and height sensors allowing you to run in a combined mode. That has both adcantages and disadvantages.

One thing I discovered about lift pressure on a combine is its "bouncy"! Every time the raise valve opens there is a pressure spike---and vice versa. The accumulators absorb that spike and then the average pressure returns to the "right" reading....but if not properly filtered it can cause problems in a control circuit. (Yes I HAVE been able to get a head to HOP just based on lift pressure...#how engineers have fun!) As Don discovered--there are very small differences in pressure in the range you need to control in; sometimes a tenth of a volt can separate too low from too high. And BION, it actually depends on the geometry of the head angle as well. The same head 2" off the ground has a slightly different pressure than 24" off the ground. Remember that what you are trying to measure is how heavy the head is on the ground.

On the other hand a linear mechanical sensor feeling the spring float essentially measures the same thing (how much pressure there is on the ground). It typically had much more range in the usable area (volts instead of tenths) and is not affected by the valves opening/closing. I find it to be much more responsive, repeatable and reliable than the pressure sensor. Essentially what you are doing when using pressure while running a MacDon is letting the springs take up the slack....the pressure is sorta holding you somewhere in the middle, while the springs are keeping your head from digging. I'd prefer to use a sensor that feels the spring motion--its more positive.

That isn't to say that pressure can't be a very usable AHHC input. ANd those who are using it successfully, well thats what really matters right? Using pressure on a rigid head while running wheels on the ground, etc. is common. Just don't depend on pressure to run a rigid head on the ground...not a good plan.
Haystack and aussie.ltd. like this.

AHHC specialist
Jeff-C-IL is offline  
post #25 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 07:46 PM
Senior Member
 
lexionman575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lexionville, NC
Posts: 744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff-C-IL View Post
Hmm- interesting conversation. I'll need to comment on this one.

The neat thing about the Claas is its really the only combine to "stack" the lift pressure and height sensors allowing you to run in a combined mode. That has both adcantages and disadvantages.

One thing I discovered about lift pressure on a combine is its "bouncy"! Every time the raise valve opens there is a pressure spike---and vice versa. The accumulators absorb that spike and then the average pressure returns to the "right" reading....but if not properly filtered it can cause problems in a control circuit. (Yes I HAVE been able to get a head to HOP just based on lift pressure...#how engineers have fun!) As Don discovered--there are very small differences in pressure in the range you need to control in; sometimes a tenth of a volt can separate too low from too high. And BION, it actually depends on the geometry of the head angle as well. The same head 2" off the ground has a slightly different pressure than 24" off the ground. Remember that what you are trying to measure is how heavy the head is on the ground.

On the other hand a linear mechanical sensor feeling the spring float essentially measures the same thing (how much pressure there is on the ground). It typically had much more range in the usable area (volts instead of tenths) and is not affected by the valves opening/closing. I find it to be much more responsive, repeatable and reliable than the pressure sensor. Essentially what you are doing when using pressure while running a MacDon is letting the springs take up the slack....the pressure is sorta holding you somewhere in the middle, while the springs are keeping your head from digging. I'd prefer to use a sensor that feels the spring motion--its more positive.

That isn't to say that pressure can't be a very usable AHHC input. ANd those who are using it successfully, well thats what really matters right? Using pressure on a rigid head while running wheels on the ground, etc. is common. Just don't depend on pressure to run a rigid head on the ground...not a good plan.

If the accumulators weren’t adjusted for the header weight during PDI, that “bouncy” can dang near shake you out of the seat.
lexionman575 is offline  
post #26 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
HI!
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Three Hills/Trochu, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,701
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 4446 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff-C-IL View Post
The neat thing about the Claas is its really the only combine to "stack" the lift pressure and height sensors allowing you to run in a combined mode.
You sure?
Claas may “stack” the readings on the display but not stack meaning reading both at the same time.
Readings 50 to 100 are float optimizer sensors, either a single sensor normal or double sensors used to combine lateral feeder control for height.
Readings 49 to 0 switches strictly to cylinder pressure sensing.
Don Boles is offline  
post #27 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
HI!
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Three Hills/Trochu, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,701
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 4446 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexionman575 View Post
If the accumulators weren’t adjusted for the header weight during PDI, that “bouncy” can dang near shake you out of the seat.
That’s never set on machines that run both pickup and straight cut headers the weigh differences being so different.
Cut height adjustment setting is used to set just below where that starts.
Don Boles is offline  
post #28 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 09:20 PM
Senior Member
 
lexionman575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lexionville, NC
Posts: 744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Boles View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexionman575 View Post
If the accumulators weren’t adjusted for the header weight during PDI, that “bouncy” can dang near shake you out of the seat.
That’s never set on machines that run both pickup and straight cut headers the weigh differences being so different.
Cut height adjustment setting is used to set just below where that starts.
Unless it changed, they come factory set at 110 bar. You’re supposed to (or maybe just what I always did and it worked) set for the heaviest head to be ran. Which would be your FD so the front one should be 70 and other two 65 (bar)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image_1543890022377.jpg (2.57 MB, 7 views)
lexionman575 is offline  
post #29 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 09:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West of Winnipeg
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
yes forgot to mention Agwest set the accumulator to the MacDon.
aussie.ltd. likes this.
challenger is offline  
post #30 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
HI!
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Three Hills/Trochu, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,701
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 4446 Post(s)
Looks like they just set it above the heaviest possible header and it’s lowered to suit. I do not know if any of my units were ever adjusted, I was never asked or told.
I guess in an ideal world it would be nice to match to headers.
Interesting chart though.

Don Boles is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Combine Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
R52 Header Height Control bharper Gleaner 5 10-21-2016 12:03 PM
Header Height Calibration seedcleaner Claas / Lexion 4 10-01-2016 08:33 AM
Header pressure on 630F on 9570 deere John Deere 7 10-19-2011 06:12 PM
2008 9770 active header float option. jdgreen John Deere 4 08-23-2010 10:22 PM
new john deere flex draper?? binbuster Headers 129 07-10-2009 10:22 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome