Jeff; MacDon, Headsight 5th sensor - The Combine Forum
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Jeff; MacDon, Headsight 5th sensor

Jeff and others, have a 40' FD70 with four wands for cutting wheat. I would like to consider a fifth sensor in the middle, as occasionally the header will high-center on a terrace in the middle and try to lower hard. At this point, if I had the factory height sensor tied into the Headsight module, it would prevent this. I am really not interested in adding a Headsight sensor in the middle because it would cost more money and possibly be less effective. I feel it would call for header raise much to often in our terrain. The factory sensor would only call for raise when the cutterbar starts to put weight on the ground.

Thoughts?

I would need a cable to go from the unused factory potentiometer to the "Center" headsight plug. I would calibrate this sensor to be on about position 1, when fully lowered during cal. Anytime the header tried to bottom out and the factory height sensor started to move, it would call for header raising.

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 10:57 PM
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You must mean wings in fixed position?

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Don Boles View Post
You must mean wings in fixed position?
? Yes, for cutting wheat, the wings are locked and the adapter set heavy. I even shim the wing lock mechanism to take out all of the free-play. This allows the sensitivity to be turned up and react much faster to the terrain.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 10:21 AM
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Seedcleaner. We actually have done a fancy version of this using our Horizon controller; its called Draper Hybrid mode. It uses a combination of off ground sensors and the flex lateral sensors in combination to allow control over both off-ground and flex mode seamlessly--however we currently only offer it with the Horizon/Terrahawk system and its probably the single most complex and advanced system we offer!

The Lexion already does this for you "sort of". The lift pressure is always part of the height equation (0-50). If your float pins were locked, the change in lift pressure as the head hits the ground should cause the combine to raise the head. However, I agree the MacDon float optimizer should be more "responsive" in motion.

Your suggestion may work, as long as you set things right. Obviously your float optimizer is not locked for this sensor to even move. However, there is a "problem" with the logic.

Theory: Consider every sensor on the head (including the float) to have a 4.0V up, 1V smashed range. Our "normal" software, the lowest voltage sensor "wins" and is passed on to the combine. So, on level ground, with the head frame just touching the ground...every "drag rod" sensor should already be smashed at 1V, while the float sensor would still be 4.0. So the float sensor literally would not affect the outputs to the combine at all even if it reached 1.0V too, since the others are already fully "smashed".

Now I realize that high centered on a terrace is not sitting on flat ground...so this approach MAY still work...you can certainly try. I would recommend blocking the feeder travel as normal during calibration so we get the maximum sensitivity out of the float optimizer setting.

I believe there is a better way--using our Feathersight (FT) software. Feathersight is a software tool that basically does in our Insight or Horizon controller what the Lexion does internally--sums the lift pressure sensor with the height sensors to create a full range. By running your float optimizer sensor into the Feathersight input, you could do exactly what you want...height sensors control off the ground, but immediate change when the float optimizer starts changing. Our software also includes settings to adjust balance (FT to drag rod) which lets you adjust how sensitive that is.

Unfortunately, your current adapter harness does not have the FT input wired in. However, by moving one wire in the Insight plug, we could make your "Center" input into a FT input, which I believe would make this work. It may not have the correct power source (5V instead of 12V) for your MacDon/Lexion header sensor though. Contact me if you wish, and we can figure that out.

There are some downsides:
1)Any bounce in your float optimizer will make the AHHC respond. If your springs are set too light, you could end up with a "feedback" loop with the head bouncing uncontrollably.
2)Depending on settings, AHHC may be slightly less sensitive off the ground. FT transfers some control from the drag rods to the "pressure". You may need to turn up AHHC sensitivity in Cebis.

So again, proper settings and adjustments are going to be critical!

AHHC specialist

Last edited by Jeff-C-IL; 06-18-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Jeff. I will read, re-read and re re-read what you wrote and consider all options. I think for me, the simplest and cheapest would be tying in the factory sensor to the "center' plug on the headsight.

I have at times had the four wands not touching the ground and the center of the header try to become mashed down into a terrace, with the indicator on 4. If you're not careful, dirt comes in.

For whatever reason, my lift pressure has no noticeable effect, at least above 50. Even if it holds it at 50, that is too much weight dragging the ground on the middle of the header and things don't work right. I have the head set heavy for wheat for good header control. Furthermore, this a 2011 740, with no "header weight pressure" setting in CEBIS.

Jeff, if I tie the factory sensor into "center", what if I calibrated it where 3 volts is fully lowered, for the center sensor. Would headsight not like that? The four others would be near 1.0 volt.

Do you know the Lexion/Macdon round plug for the center sensor name? I think it is amp. I would need an adapter from there to the "center" plug. Or I could make a harness from center plug directly to the sensor as well.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 06:24 PM
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Your comment about the sensors hanging while the center is scalping is why the "center input" approach may work for you.

Does the MacDon have the Lexion style AHHC sensor on it, with a 3 pin SuperSeal plug (yellow seal, red clip)? My FD75 manual shows that. If so that sensor needs a 12V supply to work. Our plugs are 5V. The output is 0.5-4.5, so thats the same. I have those round Amphenol connectors at the Multilink, They are called C016 or Ecomate 6+1 connectors. I think this could be made to work, but you would need to tie into the plug at the multilink for the +12V supply to the sensor. This would be true if you did the FT input as well.

It would be easier if you had the BEI Duncan sensor used by MacDon for JD & CIH - run a 10' cable, it would plug right in!

Insight stores the high and low cal point for each sensor and "equalizes" them within that range. Technically 3.0V cal low would be no different than 1.0V cal low. The actual result would be a much more sensitive float input (only 1.0V change) from high to low. At 3.0V on that sensor, the combine inputs would be at 1.0V (fully smashed). This would make the AHHC very responsive to the float optimizer moving (good). It would also magnify any bounce in the springs to be very reactive...the head may be jumpy or move unexpectedly (bad). You may need to play with the Insight calibration range (say, try 2.5V Min) to get the response you want. (BTW, decreasing the float sensor voltage below the CAL point doesn't get any further change, but it also does not cause any problems.)

I can certainly help you figure out how to get that hooked up if you want to try it.

AHHC specialist

Last edited by Jeff-C-IL; 06-18-2019 at 06:29 PM.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome Jeff. I now have a cable to go from the amp connector to the "center". The only thing I am missing is a true amp connector ( I currently just have three metal pins there).

I do have a Claas pot for the factory FD70 height sensor. I really thought it worked off of 5 volt input, shucks. This is kind of a joke but thoughts...?https://www.amazon.com/Converter-DRO...=fsclp_pl_dp_6



I do have the header set heavy for wheat, as I always do for cutting above ground, so i don't expect any jump from the "center" sensor under normal conditions.


What does this mean? FT input? (BTW, I do have your lateral tilt kit on this machine that I use for cutting on the ground. I never have used the factory height sensor since then.)
"I think this could be made to work, but you would need to tie into the plug at the multilink for the +12V supply to the sensor. This would be true if you did the FT input as well."
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 09:14 AM
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The FD70--- MAY have a 5V sensor. Lexion used a 5V sensor on early platforms-so its possible. The FD75 definitely has a 12V. The AMP connection where the AHHC connects on the Multilink has 5V (pin 2) and 12V (pin 6). The only way to tell for sure would be to plug in the original harness and measure what you are getting at the OEM sensor. (or---what pins are the wires in on the OEM plug? pin 1 - ground, pin 2 - 5V, pin 3 & 4 - signal, pin 6 - 12V

That "joke" isn't a bad idea...common the grounds and I bet it would work. But the red wire going to the Insight is 12V, we would just need to connect to it. There should also be 12V available in the MacDon harness at the "header type/reel enable plug".

FT--sorry, Feathersight. I meant that the 12V supply to the sensor is an issue either way--if we use the "center" input or if we rewire it to be a Feathersight input. I agree that using the OEM sensor makes more sense for this application than using one of the lateral tilt sensors.

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 12:49 PM
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Jeff is the Claas AHH circuit electrically powered up just a long as engine is started, main machine on, header on, or actually running and in AHHC mode?

Last edited by Don Boles; 06-19-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 06:30 PM
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Don: Key on, Engine running, is the way I usually check. The roading switch must be in field mode, of course.

You do not have to have any other function active.


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