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FD140 tilt issues

11K views 41 replies 11 participants last post by  Don Boles 
#1 ·
We bought a new FD140 this year on a Case 8230. The adapter has the double float sensor option. I set the header up properly according to the book, but when I use AHHC it wants to tilt to the right, or positive 0.6 to 1.1 degrees. Any suggestions on fixing this problem? Im in rigid mode cutting wheat.
 
#8 ·
We bought a new FD140 this year on a Case 8230. The adapter has the double float sensor option. I set the header up properly according to the book, but when I use AHHC it wants to tilt to the right, or positive 0.6 to 1.1 degrees. Any suggestions on fixing this problem? Im in rigid mode cutting wheat.
Does that mean the adapter has two sensors, a left and a right. Which should mean it can auto tilt side to side hydraulically and not just floating on the springs? My first thought was the older ones needed a Y cable to feed header signal to both sides of the combine sensor system or it would try to lift one side only, getting things off level. I think I am behind the learning curve on your problem though???
 
#9 · (Edited)
Does that mean the adapter has two sensors, a left and a right. Which should mean it can auto tilt side to side hydraulically and not just floating on the springs?
Some brands use all three sensors keeping the stock one online too but not Claas.
Simplistically, it keeps springs the same tension on both sides reguardless of the ground contouring of the header.
 
#10 ·
I can suggest a reason why your tilt is off a "degree" or so. But not why. Every MacDon head I have worked on (FD70, FD75, FD1x0), has a slightly different overall travel for the sensors left and right. IIRC, it was about 0.5V difference. I could never see any reason for this---its apparently something in the frame design.

Even though your combine "calibrates" the sensors, I have noticed before that if you have a different "travel" on the left and right sensor, it often will say that you are "Off level" when you are in the middle of the range.

The other thing that really screws this up is how far the MacDon float optimizer drops when you let the feeder all the way down, way past normal operating range. This kinda screws up a good cal--which should really only cover operating range.

You might try adjusting your sensors to the same voltage when in "operating position". Adjust everything dead level on a flat surface, set your head down to 2 (or wherever you normally run) on the MacDon height indicator, and adjust both sensors equal. Get a pile of blocks or a jackstand, and block the front plate of your feeder so the float optimizer stops when the indicator hits 0 (bottom of the normal operating range.) Don't let it drop all the way down like you are disconnecting. Then recal your combine. If that does not help, its not the sensor adjustment causing your problem.

The other nice thing about doing the above is you can "double check" your system. You're out cutting and it says you are one degree off. Stop, look at the voltages in the Diagnostics. Are they close to equal or way off? Are you REALLY tilted way over, or does the combine computer just think you are?

The other thing is, any sensor has a "accuracy" spec--usually 5-10% allowable variation. I've seen as high as 20%. Slight differences can sometimes be traced to this---just the fact that sensors are not identical. I agree 1 degree seems pretty high.
 
#11 ·
The other thing that really screws this up is how far the MacDon float optimizer drops when you let the feeder all the way down, way past normal operating range. This kinda screws up a good cal--which should really only cover operating range.
Get a pile of blocks or a jackstand, and block the front plate of your feeder so the float optimizer stops when the indicator hits 0 (bottom of the normal operating range.)
Think you mean 4 Jeff, 0 is header seated position.

I did it differently but duplicated your blocking procedure and the overall header performance was definitely smoother and more exacting.
Now, if Claas would just remember each headers settings, the Claas header rigmarole calibration as a one time setup would be fine.
Having to do it repeatedly is a PITA!
 
#15 ·
Not to totally steal this thread, but I have a question regarding my FD75 with Headsight and a Lexion. When I go to calibrate my header, I have never been able to get through the procedure. At some point it says something like left sensor missing and I am unable to complete the calibration. It has always done this, both before and after the Headsight kit was installed. It works well enough for me when I am cutting on the ground, so I haven't gotten into figuring out why. Now I would like to know!
 
#18 ·
AHHC will NOT work with a sensor error, you are running either in RTC or pressure float mode. The fact that it did this both before and after installing the Headsight makes me suspect that either the Headsight was installed wrong, or there is a wiring problem inside your header Multilink.

#1 mistake installers make is not connecting the Headsight harness to the right port on the Multilink. You must replace the original Height sensor harness plug, not plug it into the "empty" plug. Start at the OEM height sensor in the middle of the head and follow that harness back to the Multilink. If it is still plugged in, unplug it and move our harness to that port. If that has already been done, you may have a wiring problem inside the multilink.

If you don't have the latest version of the manual, that may also help (pictures, etc). http://www.headsight.com/sites/default/files/manuals/09040120f_tilt_kit_-_macdon_7x-1xx.pdf

Anyway, Call me. I can help you walk thru a few more troubleshooting steps. Jeff--574-two oh nine-1511 (gotta keep those bots away)
 
#22 ·
Yes, that makes sense to me. In the book they say to back it off if you have a double knife drive on the 40 or 45'. But the gauge wheels are much heavier on the right. I would think lightening the right side of the header by tightening the right float springs would make more sense also...
 
#19 ·
I may have missed this in thread, but I always run wheels one notch lower on RHS of machine to help compensate.
MacDon always told me it was necessary as well.
Think that’s right Jim but that was last year!
To run header level on a FD75 left spring compression position 2, right spring compression position 4. Think.
Not sure FD1’s any different.
Be a lot wiser in two weeks.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Some great info on here. Hooked up my FD145's yesterday and took them for a spin, they have the Macdon headsight kit from factory (not sure if it's called headsight from Macdon).
Having issues with the Macdon header height sensor reading at 97 out of 100 (very top of the scale) in auto contour mode in the combine monitor with the header in flex. Setting the Macdon header at about 1.5 on it's scale. This is on a Lexion 780 combine.

Would like that 97 out of 100 in the combine monitor down a bit lower in the scale. It almost seemed like the Macdon header height sensor was not making the combine auto contour react as I was moving the Macdon guage by hand and the reading in the combine would not change from the 97 on the combine readout.

Reading Jeff-I-Cil suggestion of blocking the combine feederhouse faceplate up higher when doing the calibrations seems like a great idea. Will try it this morning.

One of the headers was running at 40% on the feederhouse tilt scale so that will have to be addressed as well.
The other one was around 52%, I can live with that one.
 
#28 ·
The Float optimizer must be unlocked "in Flex" to calibrate. If you lock the head rigid, the sensors cannot travel to calibrate. IDK if locking the wings would have any effect. The best way is to raise the gauge wheels out of the way, unlock everything, and calibrate on a flat level surface. I think it would also be possible to calibrate with the wings locked and wheels down, it would just require more care and knowing what you are doing.

What you are calibrating is the "travel" in the float optimizer frame. So the better job you do keeping everything level during Cal, and only letting the float optimizer travel in the normal operating range (see blocking comment), the better the control system is going to work in the combine.

The other major problem we see is trying to Cal with the Float springs so tight the head "Floats up" when you raise it. This completely confuses the combine cal function. You must have the head hanging all the way down on the float optimizer when the head is raised all the way to the top. If it floats up or even bounces up pretty good, you are going to have to loosen the springs during CAL (or add weight. Sometimes running the reel clear forward is enough!)
 
#30 · (Edited)
You will enjoy what lateral control does in the field.
Never thought there would be much advantage to that but it is the icing on the cake.
Not sure how rolly your fields are but there is no need to have lateral control speed set to to anything but the fastest, +50 on CAC settings.

Also, set record stop height as low as possible and set feeder auto lift 5 higher. That way auto drop rate can be set higher to a smooth ground landing, if lifting unnecessarily high it has the distance to pick up speed and won’t be as smooth.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Did a bunch of reasearch (neighbors would likely think what is that crazy ******* doing running around cutting already harvested fields?!) yesterday but I can now answer what is happening here.
First, the Captain Obvious stuff using Claas terminology:
Feeder faceplate calibrated (0 to 100 scale, 50 centered)
Header calibrated
The feeder faceplate angle reading should average 50.
Mine didn’t all fall, 35 to 40 ish typical.
Lived with it but my inability to have it run properly pissed me off.
It also doesn’t matter very much when running the header off the ground and on the gauge wheels.
However, running right on the ground cutting very short a different story.
If I run more this fall or on the peas next fall I know I’ll need an on ground, light header.
I like to be as kind to the skid shoes as possible plus greatest rock resistance.

Here what what I ended up doing for those conditions and it needs done in order:
Start on level ground
Oh, make sure transport hitch is installed in field position on wings
Wing flex locked out
Reel in normal operating position
Tilt angle on “A”
Combine feeder faceplate fore/aft at normal
Header just off ground
Gauge wheels lifted all the way up
Feeder faceplate centred
Tightened right springs (evenly) until lifting about 10 pounds on right gauge wheels lifts springs off stop. More on this later.
Set left springs to match, I do it by when lifting header up and having header pop off stops at the same time, let it down full speed and stop before hitting the ground, header should bounce equally off both stops before settling (Claas 700 series has very fast hydraulics for this procedure) Believe it or not 1/2 of one turn on two springs is enough to observe a difference.
This is a far lighter setting than MacDon specs but they sell skidshoes and guards, I buy them.

Unlock wing flex, hit the field
Adjust wings until lateral tilt averages centered, 50 in a Claas case.
The wings will then average straight left and right on the indicators.

Again, this is on ground setting, float springs would have to be backed off for proper on gauge wheel operation. At least once flex is set it’s set.

This two sensor system has shown us how much better float and flex settings can be achieved than the manual system, if just points out our flawed setting.
 
#41 · (Edited)
Happen to end up helping a friend do canola yesterday, I’d seen the field before and was pretty sure my setup method would be tested.
Wow, what an understatement, it’s like a header testing proving grounds obstacle course!
Far, far and away the rollist land I have ever harvested, in a 50 m span you can get 0 to 100 (full range) feeder faceplate plus full range wing flex on both sides, what a wild ride!
It worked fantastic!:6:
My research paid off big time!:)

Well, not counting the 1/2 of a pickup box of short pieces of straw bridged over the hopper auger while testing in the already harvested wheat field, before I shut the sieves and ran the fan up to max to keep straw out, it was aiding by only idling the combine when testing, hmm., why is the quality cam showing anything? Oooooh.
My friend crawled in the hopper with a fork and spread it out allowing it to feed out, standing safely in the hopper as I ran it. I’m sure this procedure is outlined in the op manual.
Miles is still my friend.:)
 
#42 ·
To end my never ending saga on wing balance I figured out what I consider the best way to set wing balance this aft.
This assumes equal float on the four main springs already set
And the covers are off
Jam bolts loosened
Combine on level ground
Feeder faceplate centered
Reel in normal operating position
Tilt at B1/2 (mid stroke)
Wings unlocked
Cutterbar off the ground just enough it doesn’t touch anywhere.

Now for the part not in the manual.
Run the entire header at idle, knife, drapers, cross auger, reel all running
Set something on seat
Adjust bell cranks until level, keep in mind one side may slightly affect the other
If using an cordless electric impact it may adjust faster than adjustments are responded to so don’t over do it.
Also, there is a bit of slop in the adjusting mechanism, just be aware if you reverse adjustment.
Once it runs a minute or so level and does not change you’re done.
Tighten lock bolt clamp on bell crank first while running and level.

That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it!
 
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