The Combine Forum banner

John Deere 6030 vs 4840..

38K views 22 replies 11 participants last post by  chance2 
#1 ·
Never have run a 4840, but I would think that a 6030 would walk all over them when it comes to pulling. Can pull a 5 shank sub soiler with our 6030 and duals/no fluid at around two feet deep with fairly minimal slipage. However my uncle has a 4640 with fluid/duals and the same ripper on the same ground will stop the the tractor dead in its tracks. The only way he was able to use it was to tie up two shanks and make it a 3 shank. Now from the looks of it a 4840 is just a glorified 4640. Seems like the 4840 was not an adequate replacement for the 6030 when it came to drawbar pull. However I ran across the Nebraska tests years back and they indicated that drawbar pull on the 4840 was actually greater than the 6030 I think?? I find this hard to believe as I feel that the 6030 has to be one of the best 2 wheel drive tractors ever built for getting its power/weight to the ground. With the engine sitting lower in the frame than the 40's this has to be the biggest pulling benefit for the 6030. Thus creating a low center of gravity. I have run across a few other forums where people gripe about how the 4640/4840 can't get the power to the ground. I would even go as far to say that a 6030 would match right up with or out pull some MFWD tractors such as a 4455..etc. Anyone have any opinions/input on this?
 
#2 ·
They will pull!!

The stock 6030 had the 5020 6531 (8.7 litre) engine with a turbo and aftercooler to make" by the book " 175 HP, The 4840 had the 6466A (7.6 litre) engine that was worked up to the 200 HP range in the 4955 4960 tractors. If you want crazy, you can transplant a 6619A (10.1 litre) out of a 8650 into a 6030 and then 300 HP is an option. I have my 6030 turned down from it's day as the main tractor on the farm when dad had it up in the 250 HP range, now running a much more comfortable 235HP. The 6030 was built in an era where, like muscle cars, Hp values were under stated, the EPA had bugger all for smoke regulations, and it was not a bad thing to have a little extra weight on a machine because steel was cheap.

With any tractor, weight and weight split make all the difference in what you can pull. The low center of gravity combined with a whole pile of weight didn't make for the most comfortable ride by any means, but it did give the tractor that short, squat, stubby appearance then made it look like a work horse instead of a thoroughbred.

Here is mine out getting some exerciser.

 
#11 ·
Actually failed to mention its to late for a transplant cuz it's sporting a 619 out of a 8640 and was last dynoed at 280hp about ten years ago...lol The original engine had thrown a rod around that time. My Dad purchased the tractor in the mid 90's from the local dealer with a macco overhaul. I say this only cuz the tractor looked good but that was about it. I would of quit at the engine replacement if I'd of only known and bought a 4960 or something. Finally got all the bugs worked out of it in recent years and has been working well.

Though it's running hot I rarely run it wide open unless chopping corn silage. Even with the higher hp It doesn't seem to be that hard on fuel. I don't know why some people complain about it. The 4640 however is just a fuel tank on wheels imo. In the 46's defense I will say it only has 18.4-38 tires instead of 20.8-38. This may be a big factor in its lack of pulling capability and fuel efficiency. Still don't think a switch in tread would make it surpass the 6030.

I would like to purchase a 3700/3710 plow for it as we still do some plowing on the flat ground for soybeans. Wonder if it would handle a 7 or mabye 8 bottom on land with duals?? Soil is like a silt loam.
 
#6 ·
The old man had a 4840 new in '79 which I run some, and myself, I've had a late 6030 now for 25 years. I would say both have issues putting power to the ground, at least in my experience. I remember more than once the tires slipping on the rims on the 48 when really pulled hard, so the power was there. Both tractors had 20.8 38 duals. Ultimately where the 48 is able to generally out work the 6030 is with the powershift tranny. And certainly the 48 had a nicer and much quieter cab. The 48 did not have as much of an issue of lifting the front end under heavy load, where as my 6030 not only has the 16 16.1 tires full of fluid, but another 600# hanging on its nose to hold it down. If it does get traction, it will still lift the front axle clear of the ground.

I had to have the axle bearing upgrade done on my 6030 long ago, as this was a common weak point and if run too long, damage can be severe. And I have also heard of guys with power cranked up and weighted down walking thru the crown and pinion. When I first got mine, was about 5000 hours, I noticed after doing some discing with it, the head was seeping in a few places. Ended up with it in Martin's shop in Edmonton that winter to get the axles done, and when dynoed right off it was putting out over 225 on the PTO. Upon discussion between me and them, we decided to cut it back to 190. Under heavy load it will still seep a bit around the head, but nothing like it did at first. My view was rather than having it cranking out much more than rated, I wanted it to last, which knock on wood, it has. Now approaching 9000, other than one clutch which was due to main seal failure, and subsequent faulty release bearing failure within 12 hours,(the retainer split and balls piled up seizing the bearing, and ruined the threaded adjustment sleeve as well) no other major work has ever been done to it. As warrenty on the parts was involved, Martin's did the clutch the second time, and at that time, for some reason they hooked it up and noted on the work order it dynoed at 183.

I'm kind of pulled both ways as to which is better, one of course is a real classic collectors item and workhorse, but from a practical point of view, least in my situation given I do lots of PTO work, if someone offered me a nice 4840 I'd trade them.
 
#9 ·
Your 6030 could likely be in the 275 HP+ range.

That rear axel will handle some 325 HP and the 8.7 will out pull the 466..

My two cents... Don't bother with a 4840... Go to the 50-55 series. The front wheel drive really helps these tractors alot and a better powershift.

Your 6030 is likely running hot!!! Just the way we like them... Don't bother trading. Keep her! Just buy another tractor ..

PTO work... Open station international... 10-12-1466. You can reach the PTO engage from the Ground
 
#17 ·
PTO work... Open station international... 10-12-1466. You can reach the PTO engage from the Ground
5020 is my PTO favorite.

No turbo, so no waiting around for turbo to cool before turning off. PTO and key switch easily reachable from ground. Electric shutoff in injection pump, so no throttle knob to pull out to kill engine. Remote throttle by swing hopper. And the Roosa Master injection pump has so much better manners than a Bosch.
 
#10 ·
Agreed the 15 spd in the 50's is nicer. We have a 4850 and really like it gets about 200 hrs a month on the tmr wagon. When we bought it it had a chrome straight pipe on it that was burned completely blue from exhaust heat couldn't drive trough the barn because the cows would freak out from the noise
 
#13 ·
Wow!! Thanks for the input and photos. That is heavy! I'm afraid to add fluid and weight to ours as I've already had my fair share of problems with it and don't want to find out what else the 280hp can break from the clutch housing back. Lol The last thing that broke on ours was the right rear axle while ripping. We never ran the tractor hard but I think ours was just a lemon. Think most 6030s are pretty bullet proof cuz heard of stories about some over 300hp and heavily weighted with thousands of hours on them.

Yes I think a 7/8 bottom would go in our soil after seeing these picks. Even with out fluid.
 
#18 ·
I have a 5020 with turbo and pump opened all the way. 24.1-32 with fluid and 18.38cast duals. 4640 power shift with 18.4-42 fluid on inside with steel 10 bolt duals. both tractors very close in weight.
the pump on the 4640 adds a lot of mid range power to the tractor. mold board plowing the 4640 simply got more done in a day. pulling the same implement the 40 series was more comfortable and more productive.

the 7800's were light, the 5020 could walk right next to a mfwd 7800 in normal soil conditions.

put 20.8 38 rice and cane singles on the 5020 for wet chopping when I had cows. now when it gets slick he can pull where you cant walk. great pull out tractor when it was running.

when I restore that 5020 I am going to see if I can find a deere 955 v8 to put in him.!
 
#19 · (Edited)
Don't want to single anyone out particularly, so this is a general question to those posting about these cranked up 6030s. Some rather high numbers being thrown around and claims of durability at those excessive numbers that I won't bother to challenge, as I've seen enough of them when those tractors were new and still being sold, getting fixed after being cranked up way higher than sensible. 325 HP thru a 6030 final drives for thousands of hours...ya um OK if you say so lol:)

The question is, how are you putting this power to the ground so you can actually utilize it? And if you can't, then what purpose does it serve to have them turned up so high? And how much weight have you added to the nose to hold it down as well?

It was already known over 30 years ago, that dual 38 inch wheels with radial tires had reached the peak of ability to transmit power at around 200. Once you went over, most likely you begin to spin the rims inside the tires if you weighted it down that they bit into the ground. The exact problem my father had with his stock 4840 with Firestone 38 inch radials when all four were filled with fluid so he had the weight to make the tires hold the ground. He was far from alone, this was a common problem, which actually led to the 42 inch tires coming along when they did. I actually have a set of stepped rims he had bought for it, for 42 inch tires, but bolt onto 38 hubs, as if he had kept it, he was going to put 42 inch tires on it. Said screw it and got something bigger and traded it.

So how you guys doing this now with these huge numbers being thrown around here? Even with my 4850 MFWD with 42 inch radials with dry outside duals, traction and power are pretty much matched. My 6030 which is set between 180 to 190, so even call it 200, with its current R2 20.8 38 rice tires certainly lacks for traction under some conditions, but it still has the capability to pull 47 feet of vibratiller or a 40 foot airseeder, both at 5MPH, so can't be lacking that bad. And I can also still lift the nose off the ground, with the fronts full of fluid and another 600# of cast hanging on the nose. Again no fluid in duals, but they are the cast ones. It tips scales around 22K plus, as I recall. Only time it was ever weighed was the one time I had it in the tractor pulls in Stony Plain many years ago.
So I have just a bit of experience with high HP 2wds, so thus why I'm kind of scratching my head here.

I'm curious how you are making the tires stick to the rims and to the ground? Thanks.

And Chance, that 7721 of yours must have been built different than an old neighbor's Titan II was, bought new, he had a cranked up 7045 Allis on it and had lots of drive issues, belts and more. I'm amazed you were able to push that much HP thru one of those without the combine coming apart at the seams lol:eek:
 
#20 ·
I built the insides of the 7721, more European, (think Class) and less John Deere. Did a beautiful job of thrashing, but finally ran out of ways to get more air under the chaffer. First time I was able to overload an airfoil in wheat. Drive line issues were not all that bad. After learning how to make a proper windrow and avoid making all the lumps and tangled up mess I see in some windrows, you can actually put a lot of material through and do a pretty nice job. Hitch gearbox held up fine with synthetic oil in it, and a properly greased Posi-Torq drive made life pretty un-eventfull.
 
#21 ·
Ahhh OK, if you had done some mods that will have helped for sure. Funny you mention the main gear box, I know that grenaded at least once on that Titan II lol.

Was looking at your pic with the 6030 and 8 bottom plow, never got mine hooked together yet, dam plow just been on holidays since I bought it a year ago lol. Your pic cuts off the nose, I'd like to know how you hold down the nose on that old girl with all that power? Mine is, well just to your left:)
 
#22 ·
Just like you, front wheels full of fluid and the sub frame with the 12 suitcase weights out front. Have since taken the suitcase weights off the front, as the girl does not do a whole lot in the winter and it fits better in the shed. Use it on the harrow bar in the spring, so no need for the front weights there. Really all I pull that requires the front weights is the plow.
 
#23 ·
You know, AB, thinking back I have only seen one of those main drive line gear cases ever fly apart. Guy had a 4955 Deere in front of the 7721 and he complained it ran the gearbox very hot. Said you could fry eggs on it, it was so hot. Was an interesting design turning 1000 rpm in to 1500 rpm out.

Here is what has me thinking. Dad's old 7701 had the same gearbox but with straight cut bevel gears in it and it ran fairly hot with a bit of a whine it it. My 7721 had spiral bevel gears in it and ran much cooler. The 7721 that I saw grenaded to pieces had the straight cut bevel gears also. I'm not sure if the different gears in mine with the synthetic oil helped it handle the load / heat better or not.

I miss that old pulltype.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top