So...think your drill applies seed/fertilizer evenly? - Page 16 - The Combine Forum
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post #151 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-08-2015, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bussard View Post
More support on what Steve found earlier is plant counts now..
I have not seen rows with 4 times as many plants as other rows from bourgault on any of my fields. I have finished plant counts on wheat and peas so far and surprisingly counts have been consistent across width of drill, slope, hills, valleys.

The only variable rows I can find in my fields are where an opener went over a rock and the roots can't penatrate stoneOr where there is to much trash, if there was an area that did not get tilled deep enough.

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post #152 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-08-2015, 09:04 AM
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The picture and the below quotation is all that came up on Twitter this morning... He's getting lots of replays with BG owners in disbelief...lol
@beyondagronomy: I followed up and measured plant counts: wheat on canola stubble on 0.5M of row across 10 rows on the same 5 drills http://t.co/UHFUugomX1

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post #153 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-08-2015, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bussard View Post
The picture and the below quotation is all that came up on Twitter this morning... He's getting lots of replays with BG owners in disbelief...lol
@beyondagronomy: I followed up and measured plant counts: wheat on canola stubble on 0.5M of row across 10 rows on the same 5 drills http://t.co/UHFUugomX1
Ok, thanks bussard, I thought maybe you get Steve's newsletter.

Yes, Steve has set the seeding drill world a twitter.
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post #154 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-08-2015, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Turns out you have to do this through Google Chrome:
This is the text that goes with Steve's chart in bussard's post # 149:

Seed distribution on 5 precision drills
Counting plants per row tells story
A few weeks ago I took the time to measure product distribution across five popular precision air drills to find out if the same amount of product was being delivered to each row across the drill. What we discovered confirmed my suspicion and found that product distribution across each row of an air drill can vary to a large degree. In fact, we found a low of 29% in product variance to a high of 98%! It certainly begs the question: Why talk about optimizing plant stand densities and fertility rates when the tools we use can’t deliver our inputs accurately? So, if I aim for 30 plants ft2 in wheat, do I mean on shanks 2, 21, 36, 48 and 56?

I followed up on our ‘sock test’ this week and measured the plant stand densities of wheat planted into canola stubble on the same five air drills. I measured the number of wheat plants inside half a metre of row across 10 rows side by side. All wheat plants were at the 3-leaf stage and planted between 1 and 1.5 inches deep. The opener widths ranged from 1 inch wide on the JD 1870 to as wide as 6 inches on the Morris C2.

Now, I understand that crop emergence is impacted by many factors like residue, moisture, depth and germination. In spite of these things, there were some clear differences as it was with the sock test. We’re operating equipment with distribution issues that need to be addressed. The table you see above shows rows with plants below the average coloured in yellow and rows with plants above the average marked in red. Let me walk you through it:

Steve’s notes
• According to statistician Rong-Cai Yang, "there is consistency (homogeneity) for three pairs, Morris vs. Bourgault, New Holland vs. Seedhawk, and John Deere vs. Seedhawk. The inconsistency in other pairs is likely due to one or a few large deviations as highlighted."
• The two drills with the least amount of variance in plant densities were New Holland P1070 and the Morris C2.
• The Bourgault, which showed the highest variance in the sock test, once again had the highest degree of variance from low to high plant counts. The difference was a low of 10 to a high of 38 plants per 0.5M of row.
• The John Deere 1910 tank and the New Holland P1070 tank both have similar metering systems. They also create a fairly consistent pattern of high-low-high-low plant densities across the drill.
• The Morris appeared to be more consistent with a low of 6 plants below the average and 6 plants above the average.
• The New Holland had almost a perfect pattern of high-low-high-low plant densities.
• The SeedHawk was somewhat consistent with three rows high and three rows low across the bank of 10 rows I measured.

The impact of varying seed and fertilizer distribution can wreck havoc on our agronomy programs through ill-timed herbicides and fungicides from excessive or reduced tillering depending on each rows plant density. If 30-50% of the rows on you drill many not be receiving the prescribed seed and fertilizer rates, how much yield, maturity and protein are you losing? In a perfect world, every single furrow should have the same opportunity to optimize the performance of the plants inside it. That means the same plant densities and the same fertilizer rates on every row. Is that a tall order for $300,000 to $500,000 precision drills?

In the end, there is very little we can do to alter the distribution of seed and fertilizer outside of tweaking hose lengths and air brakes to alter air-flow and in turn product distribution. In reality, we need to find a way to move product from the tank to the opener so that it is metered right above the shank just like a vacuum planter. If we want to optimize seed and fertilizer distribution, the air delivery systems of today have to make radical changes to create planter type accuracy across every row. SL

Last edited by Don Boles; 06-08-2015 at 11:25 AM.
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post #155 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 12:25 AM
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I think 1/2 meter of row length would occur in about 1/5th of a second at 6 MPH. A meter turning at 300 RPM would only turn one revolution in the same 1/2 meter of row length or 1/5th of a second in time. Any slower meter speed would cause even more randomness, as would different travel lengths from the meter to the row. The number of segments in a full turn of the meter or flute is also a factor.

I'm pretty sure if you checked 10 meters of row length you wouldn't get the same degree of variation, but it doesn't change the fact that it is there in the 1/2 meter measurement.
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post #156 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 12:47 AM
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I'm not too worried about it.

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post #157 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 12:48 AM
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I noticed something seeding my cover crop this year. I just threw seed in I had left and started seeding. CSP program even allows me to do this. I switched tanks as things started to run out, seeded with one tank at a time all into a single shoot. One tank was rather even on my IAS blockage system, less than 10% spread. Another was showing a 25% or more difference between towers. After I was empty I dropped the manifold assembly and started inspecting things. I could not find the reason. 3450 flexi cart. I plan on doing some work on the seeder to get ready for fall. I will have to take a much closer look then.
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post #158 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Boles View Post
In the end, there is very little we can do to alter the distribution of seed and fertilizer outside of tweaking hose lengths and air brakes to alter air-flow and in turn product distribution. In reality, we need to find a way to move product from the tank to the opener so that it is metered right above the shank just like a vacuum planter. If we want to optimize seed and fertilizer distribution, the air delivery systems of today have to make radical changes to create planter type accuracy across every row. SL
Don you setting us up for something here? You been investing? Someone may be getting our attention and waiting to show an answer?


Clean Seed Capital Group

Last edited by lanwickum; 06-09-2015 at 01:08 AM.
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post #159 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
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Don you setting us up for something here? You been investing? Someone may be getting our attention and waiting to show an answer?
Not me.
I'm not a client of Steve's but I do follow his work and receive his weekly newsletter.
I tend to agree with about 80+% of what Steve says and does, that puts him pretty high on my credibility scale.
Also on my list, that honor goes to a group of research scientists, Neil Harker, Tom Wolf, the late Guy Lafond and I'd have to include Norm Flore and the late John Harapiak as well, Steve is up there in good company.

Anyway, when I saw this in the newsletter I called Steve to see about posting it here and he said sure.

The main thing a study like this does is it not only gets people talking about it but actually looking at their own equipment, there will be good come out of this.
More ideas will pop up and be exchanged.
And I think that is Steve's main intention.
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post #160 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mixtupfarmer View Post
Does perfect distribution turn into higher yield?

If yes then would be important, if no then who gives a crap.

Just wondering if anyone knows

The things I am most concerned about are how even the stand is for fungicide timing and ergot reduction and even maturity for escaping frost in the fall. If you lose a grade or two because of 2% green seeds or .03% ergot, you pretty well lost your profit for the whole year. Plant density makes a big difference on maturity. I guess I spent more time trying to find a good opener than the distribution issues. There are lots of questions with these big new drills.

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