Canola planters 2018 - Page 3 - The Combine Forum
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post #21 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-28-2018, 12:18 AM
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Anyone that tried to seed at 2-3lbs last year probably regretted it.

Half that crop barely germinated, a lot died under the dry crust of top soil the wind blew nice and hard, beatles chewed a bit, and then it finally rained around june 12 and then the rest came through. Having the extra seed in the ground was insurance, not a cost in that case.
What if the guy seeded his canola on May 25, might that have turned out different?

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Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. Their research casts a lot of doubt on much of what I said in my previous post. They found emergence was much the same between the air drill and the planters. It was very interesting to learn that the 20" spacing just doesn't seem to work very well (and for logical reasons). 12" seems to be the sweet spot.

Also I found the response to phos to be interesting. High rates of phos in the air drill and 12" planter increased yield, even though it hurt emergence.
I didn't watch the video but agree with what you are saying here. Actually my planter did a trial last year on 15" and I won't post the results because I didn't do it and it wasn't against my disc drill, but watching it was obvious that weed control is more of an issue on even 15".

The phos thing in the seedrow is important IMO. I am well past recommended rates of 11-52 in the seedrow and it clearly is working.

I have been harping on the low seeding rates for quite some time, one example here: https://www.thecombineforum.com/forum...t-density.html
What I am about to say will probably offend some people but here goes.... canola does not need to be singulated. The main reason that the planter guys are having success is because they are able to meter a proper low seeding rate and place it accurately(depth). Most all of those guys are not otherwise using a good modern independent opener drill. So.....if you have a good drill with accurate seed placement and can meter and distribute the seed relatively well, then canola will adjust by branching to where it needs to go. Important that when doing the lower seeding rates branching is a major part of the plant stand. In this case a narrow row spacing(I am on 7.5") works well because it increases the randomness of seed placement by a factor of 2 over a 15" spacing planter.

Now if the idiots that run this forum would get the picture thing together I would post a picture of zero-till 15" soybeans using row cleaners to make a black furrow. While it worked nice my concern is that one big wind and those furrows would be full of straw, and with a little canola seedling that's a problem.


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post #22 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 12:41 AM
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Why would you take a risk planting down to a couple lbs an acre? Doesnt matter how precise its placed or metered, if it doesn't rain on it or the beatles come.



There are lots of old air drills that grow the same crop the expensive independent openers drills do. I suspect its the same for planters. I seed 5.5lbs per acre no matter what the conditions.
An indipendent opener is not a planter. Its the metering of the seed that separates the planter from the discdrill, if you seed 5.5 lbs of canola an acre regardless of TKW your really throwing money out the window.

Planting canola sure takes a different management approach, but to me planting canola is not about seed savings, its about uniform crop that has room to make seed, you ever compared 15 inch beans vs solid seed. Less plants = more seed. Nothig worse than thick canola stand with no seeds to be found because it grew too thick.




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Well for one on our farm if we could drop 2 pounds of seed that would be $250,000 in a season. $2.5m over 10 years.

If guys are doing it successfully Iím here to learn.

But by all means keep seeding at 5.5lbs no matter what if itís working for you.
buying and applying all fert in fall is actually a lot cheaper and saves the soil in spring from compaction ime

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post #23 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 06:40 AM
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Swman, if I recall correctly it was pretty dry where Jazz is by may 25 last year, he can correct me if wrong. Probably all would have came up after June 12 Rain is my guess.

I seed my canola at 5 or 5.5, itís beem working well for me. My seed costs are higher than yours. I farm 3000 acres with less tied up in equipment than your combine costs, may be wrong but I doubt your equipment costs are lower than mine. My guess is jazzís equipment costs are lower too, just pointing out there is many ways to do things. I do count the extra seed as a cost but going from a $20,000 drill to a $200,000 has a cost too, then my tractor may not run the hydraulics, another $200,000.
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Last edited by mixtupfarmer; 05-29-2018 at 07:14 AM.
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post #24 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 07:37 AM
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In the video they claim higher seeding rate = more yield by nearly 10bu/acre so just purely going by that one clip guys who seed 2lbs acre vs 5.5 arent money ahead.
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post #25 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 07:41 AM
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Swman, if I recall correctly it was pretty dry where Jazz is by may 25 last year, he can correct me if wrong. Probably all would have came up after June 12 Rain is my guess.

I seed my canola at 5 or 5.5, itís beem working well for me. My seed costs are higher than yours. I farm 3000 acres with less tied up in equipment than your combine costs, may be wrong but I doubt your equipment costs are lower than mine. My guess is jazzís equipment costs are lower too, just pointing out there is many ways to do things. I do count the extra seed as a cost but going from a $20,000 drill to a $200,000 has a cost too, then my tractor may not run the hydraulics, another $200,000.
Totally correct, although Jazz is in a perfect position to troll a Regina yard sale for a used paralink or Case 800 independant drill. Either of those would work okay as well. Just need to be able to meter a low rate accurately and place it accurately. If your drill has any sort of randomness the canola will branch unlike corn or even soybeans, but you need to be able to meter and place it accurately.

Until we get Lindane back it is an uphill battle to seed canola in early May, better to take your chances with a later May start and cash in on the seed savings from avoiding the beetles and spring frost. Early May crops here were all sprayed with insecticide again and re-seeding is going on now too.

Seeding a lower rate and keeping your crop standing allows for fertility to be pushed allowing for much higher yields. A thin stand has way more potential than a thick one....here. I know that for 110% certain.
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post #26 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 08:44 AM
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Swman, it all depends where you are. Seeding canola late here is a guarantee to lose money. The saying here is, I will take my chances on a May frost way before the July heat. Lots of years we are done seeding everything by May 10-15. It’s a different world. I seeded my canola April 27-May 2 and there are still spots that didn’t emerge due to dry. Haven’t got a drop of rain and none in the forecast. I would rather spray flee beetles once in 5 yrs than take a chance my crop emerges in June sometime. No one shoe fits all.
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post #27 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 09:33 AM
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The uniform planter stand thing does much more than just look good coming out of the ground(in fact , as mentioned above it can look too thin and bad) as could not believe last yr how nice a pretty good crop of canola was to harvest last yr - swathed most, did some straight combine, even swathed some pretty much at 100pc seed color - even with pretty good hail storm in July,

As for wind damage we typically do not get much of this, but last yr we had very strong wind(blew over bins, etc) just as seedlings coming out of ground. Of course, I had canola planted in exactly the wrong direction for this wind and could certainly see effect of this(headlands, tree lines fared a lot better), but come harvest did not seem to matter. If I were in windy country definitely would be planting in direction to account for typical winds as assume most would anyways.

On seeding timing this is where every area is going to be different. People that talk about late May as being optimal obviously not from parts of the world around here where Fall frost(as in august) can happen since we have long term avg frost date of Sept 5. I believe that some of these other areas with May 15 seeded canola(our long term avg best yields) are actually harvesting in august and that is not the way our typical season/heat units work around here. The one thing that should not be different is that timing the seeding of canola such that it gets out of the ground the quickest, makes best use of protection of lumiderm and will outgrow the pests is best. I would much rather take chances of Spring frost and flea beetles with bit earlier seeding than seeding canola into conditions that you know it will sit in the dirt doing nothing. For the people that think seeding higher rates allows them insurance against frost and/or flea beetles, I do not know of a calculation with any degree of accuracy that could account for how many plants frost/bugs going to take. Even with airseeder/nonindependent opener was seeding at 3.5-4lbs/ac. and even though it only 2nd yr would say 1.5-2lbs/a of planter seed looks better/feels better on pocketbook.

On the fertilizer side do think there options out there other than floating std stuff on all in Fall - people just need to get more creative - I have not yet tried everything that believe would work. As for tillage this is very different depending on area and in this area will even be differences from year to year. However, this yr quite dry by our stds, and heat units quite high by our stds, and I still see a quite a difference between stuff worked in Spring ahead of palnter vs stuff just worked last Fall and just planted into this Spring. I even have some combine rows in field that worked This Spring where you can identify this. For us, anything that warms up soil more in Spring is a good thing - even if it means that we likely have more flea beetles when this happens - can see big difference between black land and lighter land.
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post #28 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 10:24 AM
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Swman, it all depends where you are. Seeding canola late here is a guarantee to lose money. The saying here is, I will take my chances on a May frost way before the July heat.
I hear the same thing here just so you know. I know every area is different which is why I said "here". But it is still canola and you simply can't predict a summer heat wave and I know later canola fills and is harvested during a cooler time of year which makes a difference.

Point is that you can't simply change one variable and say that:
>a high/low seeding rate works
>a planter is better
>seeding date should be ____
>Fertility should be _____
>Fungicide should be _____
>straight cut is better than swath
>etc. etc. etc.
But together these choices can really make a difference and the mix will be slightly different for each area. One thing I know is there is a lot of potential being left on the table.

At this point I am just pissing people off so I'm probably done on this topic...

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post #29 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 12:03 PM
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Swman, I hope no one is getting mad debating a topic like this. I sure am not. Without different ideas we never advance and get better.
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post #30 of 173 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 02:52 PM
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At this point I am just pissing people off so I'm probably done on this topic...
Not at all, not me anyway. I enjoy these discussions from guys who have more experience, more opportunity for experimentation than I do. This is what I come to the forum for. There are multiple paths, multiple variables, and we all get screwed by one or more of bugs/frost/heat/drought/rain anyway.

Now, not to stir the pot but just to make people think, one thing I'd say to those who make blanket statements like "I always do "X" and it works for me": That's great that you've had success, but do you ever do "Y" to see the difference, even if you think it won't work? Not to say that "X" isn't good but maybe something different is better? Saying "I do X and it works for me" doesn't paint the whole picture... if you do both in the same year, same fields, and then can say "I tried X and Y side-by-side, and X worked better for the [weather, insects, disease] conditions we had that year", that is much more valuable information to you.

Easy to do if you have a grain cart with a scale to do weight tests as you're combining. We did that last year with two wheat varieties, otherwise treated the same, in the same field. The difference in yield was surprising, and not expected based on the seed guide.

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