4430 Patriot pump keeps kicking out - The Combine Forum
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: S. AB
Posts: 3,291
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 806 Post(s)
4430 Patriot pump keeps kicking out

Yesterday was our first day in the field with the 4430 Patriot and I can see why people like this machine. It was very pleasant to drive. Only had one problem. Every so often, sometimes more often than at other times, the pump would just stop and the master start button would need to be pushed to start it back up again. If I don't catch it I end up missing a big chunk. Either way I have to go back over it. On the map it shows the miss clearly. Sometimes I feel like it happens when slowing down, other times it seems random. No rate or flow messages pop up. Nothing in the fault log.


This morning the problem is happening with high frequency! Slows down the acres/hour a lot when I have to stop and back up all the time.


Are there any settings I need to be looking at? Some kind of interaction between the command pro and the sprayer's computer? Does the Aim Command Pro use its own pressure sensor separate from the one the AFS 700 uses? If so maybe a bad wire or intermittent issue with it that's triggering the seal saver shutdown. I might disable that temporarily and see if that helps (and if I have apparent pressure fluctations).


Just wondering if anyone has had this problem before.

torriem is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 06:55 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Swan River, Manitoba
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
it's been a while, but I had this problem quite a few times in 3 years running a 4420 with pinpoint and never figured it out. my best guess was air in the system somewhere. there should be a separate pressure sensor. also, if you think that's bad, wait until you get a missing vcm error. case had plenty of reasons to ditch capstan.

13-36-29 is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 11:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,810
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 986 Post(s)
Torriem let us know what you figure out. In all the years I have run my 4420 I have never had this happen. I am wondering if there is something wrong in the settings or could it be the pressure guage or sensor. When there is no pressure the pump does turn off but for me that is when the tank is completley empty so pump does not run dry.
SouthernSK is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 11:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NW North Dakota
Posts: 336
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Anything in the tank or pump supply lines to restrict flow? Never had this happen with ours. When you run it out of spray the pump shutoff light comes on followed by low pressure and rate out of application range alarms popping up.

Is the yellow banjo valve underneath closed? Under and towards the front from where the pump is. Was told it should be closed otherwise the pump has to work a lot harder.
Daner is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: S. AB
Posts: 3,291
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 806 Post(s)
Still fighting this. It's not the pinpoint pump seal saver shutdown, near as I can tell. The pressure on the command pro monitor holds pretty steady. I thought I noticed that the AFS pressure was a little low and that might be triggering the shutdown. But not sure. It's very frustrating. This morning it's happening every couple of minutes. The dealer thought the hydraulic flow valve needed replacing so we did that, but it had no effect whatsoever on the problem. So that was $500 wasted.

Will check the yellow valve. I'm not sure where air in the system would be the problem. The capstan pressure sensor is not far from the other pressure sensor on the main feed line at the back. No chance of air in there.

The other day I could spray a hundred acres without problems, then had 4 shutdowns in 10 minutes.

According to the manual, for the rates and speeds we're currently using, we should turn the big flow reducer valve behind the flow sensor, so we have done that.


Other than this show stopper, we love it when it's all working.

Last edited by torriem; 04-23-2019 at 10:28 AM.
torriem is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 10:44 AM
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern Alberta
Posts: 2,521
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 966 Post(s)
Just grasping here as I am not familiar with the IH system at all but, maybe you have a slightly corroded connector to one of your pressure sensors. Could have a pin with just a bit of green on it and it periodically looses full contact sending a false signal. Some of these modern systems run on milli-amps and it doesn't take much of an interruption to cause gremlins. This could be from a sensor or the pump itself, any electrical plug in that system. Take each one apart and examine with a strong light and magnifier if you have one, clean any that may look suspect then put back together with dielectric grease. Just a thought.
torriem likes this.
Licensed to kill is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: S. AB
Posts: 3,291
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 806 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daner View Post
Anything in the tank or pump supply lines to restrict flow? Never had this happen with ours. When you run it out of spray the pump shutoff light comes on followed by low pressure and rate out of application range alarms popping up.
When the pump kicks out there's no low pressure or rate warnings whatsoever.
torriem is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 11:36 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not sure if it will fix your problem, but we are having this same issue with our apache 1010. Any time the horn is honked, pump quits. change dial on the AC fan speed, pump quits. We had it in the shop this week and found an extremely loose ground wire connected to the main electrical distribution box. Cleaned and tightened it...honking the horn doesn't make the pump quit anymore, still need to test it in the field though.
460, torriem and Licensed to kill like this.
Silver-Seeder is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: S. AB
Posts: 3,291
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 806 Post(s)
Redid a number of ground points today. Also I noticed a wiring harness (I think it does feed Aim Command Pro) had been damaged previously and some wires had been spliced by someone else. It looked okay, though. I did cut and splice two additional wires that looked a tiny bit suspect. Taped it all back up again. No change in behavior, though. The master apply still kicks out several times per field. There could still be a bad connection in this harness. I'm sure I could easily replace the entire harness, but since that's likely a bit of money I want to be sure first.

The next step is to run without Aim Command Pro and see if the problem still happens. If so, then it's on the Case side of things, not Capstan. But I'll have to change nozzles for that, though.

What I'd like to know is how (through what wires) the Aim Command Pro is signalling a shutdown when the seal saver thing is tripped. I don't believe the seal saver is tripping, but that mechanism would seem to me to be the first place to look. I'm going to ask my dealer if they can put me in touch with Capstan as they should have a pretty good idea of how the two systems communicate with each other. Even though they told my dealer they've never heard of this happening before (and Case claims they haven't either).

The service manual I found for the 4430 doesn't have any information whatsoever on Aim Command Pro. Otherwise I'd have the schematic I'd need.

Last edited by torriem; 05-08-2019 at 12:59 AM.
torriem is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 06:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
The Capstan website has schematics. Look under pinpoint 2. Thats the same as aim command pro.

NWsask is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Combine Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Torque hub seal on 4430 case patriot sprayer LeoBookham Sprayers / Chemicals / Fertilizer 1 07-09-2018 09:15 AM
John Deere 4430 Rebuild - Injection Pump Questions 1972RedNeck Tractors 60 12-25-2017 12:11 PM
Upgrading from 1064 Rogator to 4430 Patriot chris_adkins62438 Sprayers / Chemicals / Fertilizer 42 11-14-2012 05:55 PM
Case IH Patriot 4430 Sprayer SDFarms Case IH 0 10-08-2011 09:19 PM
JD 4430 steering hand pump combinekid Tractors 2 11-25-2010 10:49 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome