Farm-saved seed royalties - Page 29 - The Combine Forum
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post #281 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 02:46 PM
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Just saying that you need to flip your thinking G. What indeed is stopping the people with the trait already on hand from making it available to Canadian farmers. This is an important question. And therefore, does that mean any variety created in Canada under UPOV91 WILL NOT be sold in another country? This is why we are adopting UPOV91 right? To have this competitive advantage? So how did we get the RR trait in Canada in the first place?

Not challenging for answers - simply stating some questions we all need answers too before saying WE HAVE TO ADOPT THIS. Its a free world. They have all the research to do it and have proven it. So go ahead and sell it in Canada, if i see the pay out for it i could even buy it. All done without changing anything.

Now, if they simply choose not to sell it or apply their research in Canada then that is their choice. I accept that. But to say we need to change our rules and then they will sell it is very clearly a ploy that has nothing to do with paying for the research they have done under the existing rules.

In fact, if the trait exists and the developer refuses to sell it then that would indicate we need more public research because clearly the private researchers are following an agenda.

And Walter raises a point brought up a while ago that wasn't delved into - since when is the farmer the end user when we are told that it is processors that are demanding many traits. Why does the farmer pay?

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post #282 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 02:59 PM
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What stops producers from paying for R&D on varieties that end up not being or specifically not bred for Canadian environment then seed companies taking them to other countries to sell and become our competition?

Canada supplied Kazakhstan with seed to get going and became our competition.

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post #283 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 03:33 PM
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It would be worth paying more for the seed, which farmers would be more than willing to do(myself included). It would not however be worth handing over control of our seed development and cost structure in perpetuity, which is what is on the line here..
100% Agree SWMan. Farmers will be more than willing to pay for newer better varieties, but not in the proposed schemes that are being put forth.

It doesn't seem to be that any of the seed developers are putting any proposals forward except for ones where Producers carry the cost and risk of everything forever.... That is not free enterprise.
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post #284 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 05:20 PM
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you'd rather pay $100/bu for seed, as opposed to say a royalty of $25/bu over say 4 years?

Yes, yes i would. Because if I'm paying the 100$ for it today, it exists. What is being proposed is paying 25$ a year for who knows how many years till that 100$ seed is MAYBE developed.



See the difference? The 100$ seed does not exist and seed developers want us to pay for its development. Its called risk free OPM (other peoples money).



And it sucks.
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post #285 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 05:28 PM
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Not sure I understand how we're giving up our freedom? So a seed comes out with traits you want on your farm, you'd rather pay $100/bu for seed, as opposed to say a royalty of $25/bu over say 4 years?
Yea if it was that good I'd pay the $100 to have the seed...
I would plant it
I would fertilize it
I would take care of it
I would pray I get rain
I would pray I dont get hail
I would wait for it to ripen
I would harvest it
I would dry it if need be for safe storage
And it would be MINE.
perhaps I'll grow it again next year if it was that good. But...
I WILL NOT have to tell somebody that I decided to grow it again.
I WILL NOThave to tell somebody how much I decided to plant
I WILL NOT have to let somebody in my yard to measure what's in my bins.
I WILL NOT have to cut a cheque for every year for who knows how many years I decide to put it in the ground again......

Risky business being a farmer....
Not so much developing a seed.
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post #286 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 05:38 PM
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Apples to oranges, how would more expensive fertilizer help a farmer? Where a seed with certain desirable traits would be of benefit to a farmer but have to pay a royalty to get them. Not sure I understand how we're giving up our freedom? So a seed comes out with traits you want on your farm, you'd rather pay $100/bu for seed, as opposed to say a royalty of $25/bu over say 4 years?
Ummm, yes that is a complete no brainer. How about year 5,6,7,8?

Or is something wrong with my math that shows $25 per bushel savings for the last 4 years and forever after?

As for freedoms, you obviously don’t value our right to save seed but we are going to lose that.

Or how about this, government and possibly private business will have the right to come audit your bins for enforcement. Maybe you don’t care about personal freedoms but i do.

That ******* from Lima grain and all your buddies friends are free to stay out of Canada if they don’t like it here.

I’d probably chip in to get the Lima grain guy back to oz or to whichever country he wants to fuk over next.
For someone who picked apart my previous post based on scientific evidence. You sure seem to be passing off alot of your opinion here as fact.
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post #287 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 05:42 PM
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We should have quotas in place, summerfallow, and jack the price.
I don’t want any more yield, I want more price. I don’t want more and bigger bins, nor do I want more and more equipment.

If you told any other company, be it CN, DOW, or Walmart, to take the same risks we do, they’d be expecting returns of 1000% per year associated with the same comparative risk.

Farmers really are dumb as a whole.

But at the same time, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few of these company headquarters on fire, after farmers slowly go broke, getting fed up paying all these royalty taxes year after year.

It’s just so sick that this all comes down to companies bribing government to push this through, in the end, that’s all this really is...greed.

Last edited by hihi962; 12-29-2018 at 05:50 PM.
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post #288 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 06:00 PM
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For someone who picked apart my previous post based on scientific evidence. You sure seem to be passing off alot of your opinion here as fact.
Sorry it comes across that way my opinions are opinions. Same as your buddy has one, itís just an opinion.

A guy said they had germosplasm (not seeds) in Europe that would work great here. In my view thatís his opinion. I just pointed out it is not a fact it is an opinion.
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post #289 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 06:01 PM
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Which of my opinions came off as fact?
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post #290 of 446 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 06:48 PM
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Can you imagine if the government took extra tax money off every ones paycheque in the form of another tax. Then gave that money to a&w mcdonalds and Wendy’s so they could reasearch better more healthy burgers that would benefit the quality of life in Canada and also the world possibly? Then allow the burger company to get the tax money by providing a list of names of people that bought burgers from them in the past to get the millions /billions of dollars collected?

That sounds completely retarted? to support a system like that and help a government impose rules to make it happen but here we are getting told how much better the burgers could be and how we’re missing out in those special burgers they serve in other countries.

Fack sakes. Our own checkoff money that we provide to groups to help us is being used to usher in this plan really pisses me off.

Edit.
I guess we would have to provide a list of the burgers we consumed during the year to get our pay check so they could pay the right burger company the proper amount for my analogy to be more correct?

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Last edited by Highmarker; 12-29-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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