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Farm-saved seed royalties

92K views 500 replies 71 participants last post by  kenmb 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Three questions:
>When was the last time any government did something that made it easier for the farmer to run his/her business?
>Will every other country around the world be implementing the same measures that are a direct cost to farmers?
>Is there a problem with seed companies going broke lately?

You can probably gauge my level of support from those questions...
 
#4 · (Edited)
They are taking cues from Apple and Deere; license to use and the consumer never actually owns the product. It would be nice if they had more than one consultation per province so the grassroots opposition could be better quantified.

Edit: Just spoke to my local Sask Wheat commission director(who posts on here) who said it is best to contact AAFC to voice concerns. I will update this post with that when I get it. It sounds like this change is being rushed through with minimal consultation. The meeting in Saskatoon is only a 50 seat room. Greatly deficient when this will fundamentally change how the industry is structured.
 
#8 ·
Im not a farmer but have been involved in ag all my adult life so bear that isn mind. Here are my thoughts. I think it's BS. However, IF they are going to implement this, then it should come with the condition that NO existing varieties are EVER deregistered. This way, any varieties that require the royalty paid would have to have ACTUAL financial benefit to the producer or they just won't seed it and stick with the older, non-royalty varieties. They would have to actually EARN the royalty, not just extort it out of the producers. This would put an end to the perpetual "X% better than the check (Y variety) that we all know is BS in most cases. If these new varieties that have been coming out over the last 20 years REALLY performed better than the check by the claimed yield, we would be averaging over 100 BPA by now.
 
#22 ·
The check varieties are not solely based on yield alone, there are several other things considered when deregistering varieties. Agronomics play a very big role, disease resistance is far better now than it was years ago, straw strength and length, days to maturity have shortened, etc. Also end use results. The reason for most of the movement in wheat over the last year or two has been almost entirely based on end use results. Some varieties were keeping up and beating the check on yield and agronomics, but that was coming at the expense of milling quality, and foreign millers and bakers were starting to push back. No point growing a 150 bu wheat crop that no one can use in the end, or it comes at such a discount that it would be better off growing a 60 bu crop for more value. Personally breeders have spent too much effort pushing the yield factor of new varieties and have not put enough into the agronomics and milling qualities.
 
#10 ·
Yes just one more step towards us being their servants. Getting very close to not actually ever owning anything we have or use, such as technology, the grain we grow, and the banks pretty much own the rest. It's getting sickening, I'm almost on the verge of telling the whole world to go F*#K itself and leave me alone.
 
#13 ·
Anybody know the dates? I'm 50 and have had enough of this as well. Every time I turn around someone else wants a piece of my pie. There isn't any left. I have said that if Turdo gets in again we are finding somewhere else to live. Hard to do as there isn't many places where we can go that our dollar is par. I just hope people are smarter this time but I have a feeling the majority east haven't figured it out.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Oh this is finally starting to rear its head. Wondered how long it would take.

It's a revolving door between government and big ag. We are really behind the 8 ball here.

A couple of us went to the CSTA meeting in Calgary last December because we heard of this in the pipeline. Among the discussions were meetings thinking up ways to get more money out of the "value chain"(that's how you are viewed boys), under the guise of having more money for breeding programs and variety research. Also how to manage farmer backlash. The heads of the farmer groups (such as Alberta wheat) were there rubbing shoulders with monsanto/syngenta/richardson-pioneer/etc and giving advice on how to structure things.

Farmers are going to need to be vocal on this one, this is a pure cash grab. And we need to push back on upov-91. Their ultimate goal is hard end point royalties and no farm saved seed.
 
#17 ·
The meeting in Saskatoon is in a venue that only holds 50 people, half of which will be commission directors, a lot of the other half will probably be apas, so there will be next to no room for producers. Seems like a sham process to push through what they want.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I agree. Every other interest group uses social media to organize, so should farmers in this case. I am willing to make the trip. In the meantime when I get more information I will post it here. I don’t think it would be a bad idea to write your MP and the Ag minister.

But let’s not sit around and ***** without at least trying to have our voices heard. This is a fundamental change to the Canadian industry that will affect the producers the most.

Edit: when I talked to the local sask wheat director last night he said he said the first step should probably be spreading the word that this is going on, because it seems most producers are unaware. So start by letting all your neighbours know
 
#20 ·
This is coming from the UPOV 91 agreements, and it does already happen in other countries. Canada is finally catching up to the rest of the world, good or bad. This agreement allows for the breeders to collect royalties on their seeds for X numbers of years to put that money back into research, but it also allows for changes in new varieties coming to the market. For example, if a variety has been tested in one country and has passed all the minimum check standards, that data can be transferred any where in the world, just have to match data to each countries check standards. This would allow foreign varieties that are better than domestic varieties to be allowed in months time rather than years time doing testing as if it was a brand new unregistered variety.
Unfortunately this is a broad brush approach to things, as this agreement covers all breeding of plants, from wheat to pineapples, and there is really not any separation between annual crops and perennials.
Canada has always been a part of this agreement, but we were operating on a previous agreement (UPOV 78 I believe). In 2015 it was agreed to enter into the UPOV 91 agreement, but I am not sure how much that has been enforced, and I do remember that there is a new convention coming soon to again relook at this agreement.
For some industries this will be a big advantage in breeding, newer strains will be coming into production much sooner with a worldwide breeding program. Unfortunately for things like the "usual" cash crops, wheat, barley, oats, etc. they are very location specific. Even varieties that are bred in Manitoba will not work so well in Alberta, and vise versa, so bringing in a variety from Australia really wont help at all. But under the new agreement, just by comparing data, if the variety will work, it will be much easier to bring the variety over to Canada to see if it will out perform what is already established.

https://www.upov.int/portal/index.html.en
 
#23 ·
This is coming from the UPOV 91 agreements, and it does already happen in other countries. Canada is finally catching up to the rest of the world, good or bad.
Really? What other parts of the world? Don't tell me Europe because we aren't competing with them, we are shut out of that market most of the time. I highly doubt this is implemented in South America or Russia.

How about they line up the pesticide approval process with some other countries, that would actually be a benefit to a whole lot of people. IMO this is simply a cash-grab by the industry and it all happens while our commodity groups sit idly by with our hard-earned check-off dollars. When the heck are they going to stick up for the people they are supposed to be working for???:rolleyes:
 
#24 ·
For the past 20 years, we have mostly bought certified seed from registered seed growers. One of the few inputs we actually do buy. We run junk machinery but always try to start with the best seed. In the long run, I think it has saved us money. Have never regretted this decision. We have cleaned our own if we can't find what we need but try very hard not to.
 
#25 ·
Here are the dates and locations for the meetings:

Winnipeg — Friday Nov. 16, 10 A.M. to 4 P.M., Delta Hotels by Marriott
Ottawa — Friday Nov. 30, 10 A.M. to 4 P.M, Hilton Garden Inn Ottawa Airport
Saskatoon — Tue. Dec 4, 10 A.M. to 4 P.M, Saskatoon Inn and Conference Centre,
Edmonton — Thurs. Dec 6, 10 A.M. to 4 P.M, Renaissance Edmonton Airport Hotel

A little bit bit about what they're talking about

The proposed models are described by AAFC and CFIA as follows:

End point royalties: royalties collected on all harvested grain, including production from farm-saved seed, and distributed to plant breeders/rights holders.
Royalty collection enabled via production contracts (trailing royalty): contractual restrictions on farm-saved seed use or royalty payments made directly to variety developers by producers for their farm-saved seed use.

https://germination.ca/the-deadline-is-tomorrow-to-sign-up-for-consultations-on-value-creation/
 
#28 ·
Here are the dates and locations for the meetings:

Winnipeg — Friday Nov. 16, 10 A.M. to 4 P.M., Delta Hotels by Marriott
Ottawa — Friday Nov. 30, 10 A.M. to 4 P.M, Hilton Garden Inn Ottawa Airport
Saskatoon — Tue. Dec 4, 10 A.M. to 4 P.M, Saskatoon Inn and Conference Centre,
Edmonton — Thurs. Dec 6, 10 A.M. to 4 P.M, Renaissance Edmonton Airport Hotel

https://germination.ca/the-deadline-is-tomorrow-to-sign-up-for-consultations-on-value-creation/
Deadline has passed, but I have tried to sign up for Edmonton regardless.

If we email Kyle (the sign up guy in the link) enough times, maybe will be able to get in.
 
#31 ·
So if I buy 50 acres worth of certified wheat seed today - 100 bu - and in the fall harvest 3000 bu for next year to plant 1500 acres worth for the next 5 years, each year keeping a portion of the seed for the next year producing a total of around half a million bushels, I can do that paying a seed royalty on 50 bushels? Or about 50 to 100$ in royalties.



Doesn't exactly seem fair either.
 
#35 ·
Fair point. But one sales pitch for buying new seed is keeping fresh genetics and that over time the genetic purity will erode. Is this true? And if so, will the royalty deminish over time as well?

I understand there has to be incentive for breeders to create new varieties, and I kind of think anyone for smaller government might welcome this move as it is a move for them to get out of plant breeding. What I am most outraged over is this sorry excuse for consultation and the potential to have a new expense which cost cannot be recaptured. And like I said in my first post in this thread, it seems like another erosion of consumer rights as more companies move to this licensing scheme. Soon we might need you to start an AgOpenGenetics thread!
 
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