Invigor vs RR Yields - Page 9 - The Combine Forum
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post #81 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 03:52 PM
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A farmer is his own worst enemy. Overuse of everything and poor rotations will be the downfall of the family farm eventually. Soil health is everything and many just figure you can buy your way out of caring about your soil. Fungicides kill Mychorizzal fungi which are the life blood of soil in natures eco system. Organic matter and diversity brings soil health. Not rocket science, but seems to be in this day and age for people who believe they will make a chemical to fix all that. We are slowly digging ourselves a hole every time we apply farming practices we have used for the last many years. Soil health improvements have only improved slightly with minimum tillage being introduced over the yrs but the amount of chemicals we spray these days is insane. A sprayer was something you used once a yr and now it's the most used piece of equipment on the farm. If you think you have improved your farm by growing canola over and over and over you are wrong. Short term in the bank account, maybe. But long term you are spending a massive amount of money to continue this practice which isn't helping your soil whatsoever. High paid rent and canola on canola til the rent contract is up makes me wonder what the landlord is thinking lol. Live for today and worry about tomorrow when it comes attitude is a money making proposition that chemical companies live on. Sometimes you got to make less $$$ on every piece of land and do what's best for it. Steward of the land or steward of the bank account is a hard choice to make it seems.

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post #82 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 07:52 PM
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Letting Govt dictate rotation will end vary vary badly. Guys are getting clubroot that havenít grown Canola in years. Some where planting 1 in 4 yrs and some hadnít grown it in 20 yrs on land that was infected

We donít fully understand the spread or how long it lasts. Plant breeding is going to need to solve the problem just like man invented a small pox vaccine years ago or has learned to treat HIV so most people live out a somewhat normal life.

If Govt mandates a rotation whoís to say Climate Barbie doesnít mandate Zero Till next or make everyone plant 10% of there farms to trees. Give it time and industry and farms will work trough it. Industry worked trough it when blackleg first became a problem in the 80s. Nobody is apparently old enough to remember the 5bu/Ac crops some guys where harvesting after they allowed blackleg to take hold.

Am I supposed to go to a 1 in 4 rotation on cereals because I have fusarium and half the prairies have fusarium?????
I totally understand what you are saying, and a big part of me agrees. I just think it isn't right when one guy is on a 5 year ban and next field has no restrictions. This stuff is everywhere, especially in those areas, just a matter of whether it's been found or not yet. Maybe the fact that it is being dealt with poorly the way hihi962 describes is an indication of how gov't should stay out of it???

It should be all or nothing IMO and there should be 2 break years between canola anywhere clubroot is a concern. I suppose if certain farmers can't restrain themselves and can't make money growing other crops the whole thing will sort itself out one way or another, probably with disastrous canola crops/bankruptcies/lower land values. The free market will sort it out one way or another and it might be with resistant varieties, but you are probably right the gov't will screw it up for sure....ha ha

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Do you ever type responses to give yourself perspective or feel better/worse/inspired and then delete them? Oops forgot to delete.



If you are having trouble visualizing the current state of Ag, Bayer bought a company whose only innovation (glyphosate) is 30 years old that has long run out of patents with the weed resistance list growing daily. Only a matter of time till wild oats is added to the list.
They have nothing in the pipeline - or does any other company, and even if they did they couldn't get it approved. There is no money in developing chemistry. Takes far too long as well.

Farmers contribution to this is spraying fungicides constantly on wheat/canola or wheat/canola/canola with volunteer wheat in canola and volunteer canola in wheat ie 0 year rotation all the while saying seed companies will magically come up with solutions while we focus on little helicopters doing weed id, staring at pretty colorful maps or having tractors drive themselves because technology solves problems.

Or maybe it isn't anything like that, please tell me I'm wrong.
I've deleted several posts before hitting "Submit", but you need not feel bad about this one. I agree farmers are very short sighted and easily distracted from a good long term plan. I was a wheat/canola guy myself for many years, trying to leave that behind now for a lot of reasons. It's not the easy way for sure, hopefully it's easier long term.

I was told though there is some new chemistry coming for wild oats, probably within ten years. And Monsanto had a pretty viable seed/genetics business and probably some other valuable stuff too.

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post #83 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Hold the phone there. Dekalb to the rescue. 2 full liter shots? We're saved...

Yes, yes we are. I had the glufosinate/glyphosate tolerant one in the TruFlex plot. It was a bit, what's the word reassuring?, that i was using 2 chemistries for resistance. First shot at cotyledon was RU then at 4 leaf when weeds quite small used liberty. Worked quite well from an agronomic standpoint. But yup, same old same old.
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post #84 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 01:02 AM
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I have been a hard core invigor fan up until a few years ago. Tried some rr and it ran just as well as invigor l252. up until then I have never used round up and it does well on the weeds for half the cost of liberty plus centurion.

I think what plays the biggest part in a crops success is the weather. The majority of my acres are under irrigation so 90% of the time moisture is no concern. I've had invigor yield less than my round up acres using similar agronomic programs

Also I'm getting into this whole soil health thing but I feel like some of it is a bit far fetched. When I started farming roughly 8-9 years ago the land that I rented has never had a fungicide app on it. I got rust in 2010 and scelerotinia (sp) in 2011.
I do however suppose they may be talking about soil born disease rather than blown in by wind although I hear about this "aura" that surrounds the crop canopy and helps fight disease etc.
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post #85 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 08:40 AM
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Doing wheat - canola probably for 18 years , so far no problems
Super clean farm no wild oats anymore ,yields still improving.
A very good rotation is one in seven with a pulse only once .
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post #86 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 09:17 AM
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A farmer is his own worst enemy. Overuse of everything and poor rotations will be the downfall of the family farm
Why are you knocking on the family farm?? If anything I'd say the big corporate farms would be the ones to overuse everything in an effort to maximize before a smaller family farm would......
I had flea beetles in my canola last year, kept a close eye on it, had an agronomist have a look at it... it was borderline necessary to spray... but I held off and the crop pulled through. A corporate farm wouldn't have thought twice about spraying the little buggers out.
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post #87 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 10:00 AM
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Corporate or small farms all have canola way overgrown. Trouble is you may do everything right but what your neighbor is doing can affect you just as much. There are good farms out there I find, and most have cattle and alternate some land into hay every 3-4 yrs. Swath grazing and grow things other than canola and wheat. Bly oats and pea blends etc. Anvil I agree corporate farms just go ahead with everything. No time to take a second look. Lots of family farms do this as well though. Their agrologist is working for a company and it is always easier to say yes you better spray, and avoid a wreck, and make the company money at the same time. People have turned over their farms to the agrologist working for a chemical company. Not many make decisions for themselves anymore or even took a spade to their soil to see what is there. BrianTee has a wife who walks his fields constantly like I do myself. His wife see's what I see. He is a family farm operator like most of us on this forum. I am not picking on you Anvil in particular or any family farmer in particular. Every farm can do what they chose. Their payments and their land. We have been led to this high canola production theory to remain profitable but it will come at a cost eventually. Disease will take over quicker than they can develop genetics and chemicals. I am by no means a perfect farmer. I fertilize and spray and have overgrown canola myself. As I have grown older I have seen a lot of change over the years and regret the cattle leaving the farm somewhat. I mismanaged them as well overgrazing a single pasture. And not swath grazing yrs ago. It was unheard of in this area so many yrs ago. I have learned a few things in the 30 yrs I have farmed the hard way. I would love to have those yrs back with the knowledge I have now. Hopefully my kids will retain some of this different thinking but that will be their choice.
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post #88 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 10:10 AM
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I by no means was thinking you were picking on me (I leave that up to someone else on this forum..)
I just think corporate farms would be quicker to just spray something out and be done with it.
But yes there are both sides of the spectrum in big AND small farms I agree.
And I my self am working currently on spreading out my rotations beyond the 2 year canola/cereal circle, and am trying to learn what other crops I can throw in the mix for profit.
I am very fortunate to have access to an agronomist that in my flea beetle problem last year, I was on the fence about spraying and he talked me down, spraying insecticide should be a last resort.

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post #89 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 11:51 PM
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I never did the math but Alberta is around 80 to 85% wheat canola "rotation". But farmers keep saying they know best and are good stewards of the land, legislation not required.
Well donít count me among those farmers.
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post #90 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 01:09 AM
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Canola is the "easy" crop to grow and as such fits into the "big" farm plan - particularly in areas where more imagination is required for rotation options. This makes it more of a commodity and if you pencil the numbers it returns the same - input companies and buyers can figure out that return too easily. To be clear I grew canola back to back 6-7years ago and if numbers suggested it were the thing to do would do that again. However, in the past 6 years have only grown it twice(one of those was specialty canola too) and increased returns because of it. FWIW - I am growing no canola this year.

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