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Cropping after mustard

5K views 27 replies 8 participants last post by  brazil08 
#1 ·
Any ideas?
I'd really like to do corn, suspecting a yield drag like corn after canola.
I've got some grass issues on this land, nothing serious anymore and I successfully raised wheat on it last year with no issues but I want to keep on the grasses for a few more years.
Is corn a bad idea? Something else that I may want to consider for good grass control?
Maybe just plant peas in it? Might get a little over the top with mustard?

Ideas much appreciated!
 
#2 ·
Will have some of that of my own. Corn never has been/likely will not be option here. As long as mkt works plan on having my own pea seed for next yr which helps a bit with cost and will be going with that on good chunk of acres. I like peas after canola - thinking same for mustard, but never tried. Heat(group 14 stuf that maybe called diff down there) and that nasty roundup would great for getting canola(may even be better for mustard) et al and if you can apply it right at groundbreak around here you usually get enough of it that do not need expensive broadleaf later - could use something cheap like Assure for grassy. Actually having bit of canola/mustard for peas to climb up not a bad thing here and Heat works good on it for preharvest - roundup would be cheaper if you did not want seed.
 
#3 ·
peas are definitely an option.... works pretty well with a heavy rate of Heat in burnoff to hold back mustard for while. I always find on that rotation that the Canada thistle gets pretty wild in the peas after an oilseed, definitely will want to do a fall burnoff this year.


spring cereals are fine too as long as you add a little extra fert to keep the proteins up.


as to corn i would not know. not sure if you used any granulars like edge or trifluralin in the mustard. the label doesn't say much about recropping corn.
 
#8 ·
I wonder if the mustard would even germinate by the time the peas would be seeded, peas get slammed in pretty early.
I am liking this pea thing more and more.
Could make some choices as it comes with herbicide options.
I've done a little experimenting with thistrol this year on Canada thistle (labeled for peas) and it's working quite well. I was curious if it would kill mustard so I sprayed a small patch of canadians in it and it dinged it but definitely didn't do much harm.
Could use raptor if it is not out out of hand but thick enough for concern or go to Basagran if it gets crazy and I want to bail out.

Seeing how well mustard controls grass on it's own (its actually pretty crazy) I have some fear it would have a lasting effect that might bother the corn.
Kinda like planting wheat or corn after sunflowers, they just can't hack what ever it is that sunflowers leave behind.
Most people think it's the water consumption witch has some play in it but sunflowers definitely have a mechanism to them that suppresses grasses.
 
#4 ·
Which grassy weeds are you concerned about, wild oats/quackgrass/brome?

Here I have some group 1 and 2 resistant wild oats and corn is a very good tool to have because after three apps of gly there won't be any wild oats making seed in the corn year. Liberty canola is next best option when Centurion mixed in, the Amigo seems to make the Liberty work really well on grassy's. Thinking maybe Edge ahead of the peas going forward and in wheat Avadex is probably gonna be standard equipment. Soybeans are great for keeping field clean with Authority and three passes of gly, but need the late rain.

As far as yield drag on corn after canola I don't think it would be devastating by any means, we harvested some really nice corn last year grown on canola stubble. What really showed up this year is need a black field with residue spread evenly. I harrowed a quarter of canola stubble this spring ahead of my corn and the wind blew the straw into ditches and hillsides where it looks terrible now, should have protilled it instead. Ideally I would like to have a granular kit on the planter and try this stuff with the corn on canola stubble: https://www.ptagtiv.com/en/products/agtiv-field-crops-granular/
 
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#5 ·
Which grassy weeds are you concerned about, wild oats/quackgrass/brome?
Barnyard grass, foxtail grass, cheat grass.

Sure there is a couple wild oats hiding out there but they have not shown thier face to me yet. Only been farming this dirt since 14, had wheat on wheat since the beginning of time before I got it and the ways of controlling barnyard grass seem to be getting harder all the time.
Rimfire max is the only thing that has worked for me and after a few years of being on limited production it's on the chopping block but it sucks on pigeon grass so now I'm getting that in the fields as a trade off.
Kinda like growing a little wheat for broadleaf control, especially Canada thistle.
I did find some herbicide called thistrol that works on peas that's doing really well, went after a patch in the mustard with it for curiosity and it didn't do much damage so it's a viable option for peas and mustard together.
I also dont have resistant wild oats yet but my neighbors do and its getting out of hand fast. Curious to see if they raise wheat again next year. Bet they do.......
 
#6 ·
Been doing peas following mustard for years. This year is the only year I remember the mustard showing itself in the peas. I sprayed Viper just before our first rain of the season, the rain that got all the volunteer mustard going and it still isn't that bad. No worse than the number of thistles sticking above the canopy. More mustard may become visible over the next few weeks though. Preharvest glyphosate on peas when 90% turned gets me good control of grasses and still use the peas for seed next year. That idea of not using peas sprayed with glyphosate for seed is a false blanket statement. A mature and drying pea plant won't absorb glyphosate into the seed. Glyphosate isn't the preferred method to speed up harvest, so you would be using it for next years weed control and as such you shouldn't be rushing out to spray your peas when overly green.
 
#10 ·
Have only swathed or used glyphosate on peas for dry down. Always been yellow peas but understand how greens would be different. Don't grow RR anything so peas are the crop to go after grasses and thistles. I could use a desicant on peas and then do post harvest glyphosate I suppose but then top growth is cut off thistles and so that is a problem.

Many ways to do things and reasons why I suppose. All I can say is that in 15-20 years of peas after mustard this is the first year I have any mustard showing. Used to use Odyssey and that kept the mustard in check too. It's simply an odd year this year on this farm to start any discussion on weed control and what does/doesn't work. My mindset is to toss aside anything observed this year as it likely won't be applicable for the next 10+ years.

Have lots of volunteer flax in my barley too. More concerned how that plays out. The mustard in peas is of not much concern.
 
#11 ·
Don't grow RR anything so peas are the crop to go after grasses and thistles.
I find it interesting you say thistle because that always seemed to be the big issue in peas here.
I harrassed some guys about using Basagran a few years back and they all told me I was crazy but after a couple years I'm not crazy anymore. Now that I found mcpb I'm confident thistle will be a thing of the past as I start growing peas, hopefully....
 
#13 ·
It is hard to keep up with Cdn vs US chemistry. I do have couple qtrs right across road from each other that are peas on canola stubble and did viper on one side and just assure on other side of road. Never have bothered to figure out photo posting on this site,but if you PM me with phone number could show the difference - if interested. Viper a good product under right conditions - just expensive up here. Curious what Raptor/basagran mix wouold cost you down there? Need to look up that thistle one too as that is another good reason growing peas after canola and controlling it as think thistle balls almost come with pea seed in many cases. What does it cost?
 
#14 ·
It is hard to keep up with Cdn vs US chemistry.
I think that is intentional so we here in Canada don't realize how bad we are getting hosed. Seems like a lot more generics in use down in USA, hopefully more become available here soon.

Is Viper supposed to work on thistle? I have sow thistle poking through my pea field(which was sprayed with Viper) and it's chest high! Not sure if any thistle in this picture though...

 

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#17 ·
I am speaking of using glyphosate for preharvest on peas when saying its a good opportunity for long term thistle control. In crop viper isn't that strong on thistles I am seeing. Not compared to the Curtail, Infinity, and Barricade I used on flax and barley this year. If my peas looked like that SwMan, trying to control a few sow thistles would not cross my mind. My biggest issue with sows is that if they don't dry down enough they wrap on the pea auger so I have to wait a couple more days to combine. Other than that, a few poking through is not a big deal. Last two years I have been really good at growing sows it seems. But a little tillage thistle growing here and there is perhaps not a bad thing. People pay good money for tillage radish, maybe thistles are a cheap second. The sows are mostly in the flooded out compacted areas from the wet years so as that land reestablishes my sow pressure should drop significantly.
 
#19 ·
Ya, I'm at $17/ac for viper and another $2 or so for the nitrogen. The better plan may be put the peas in the ground then do burnoff about 7 days later. Only did that once before. Have been using Authority preseed and always had the thinking it should go down before seeding, and that may be exactly opposite of the truth. Also thinking it's easier to kill the kochia early using glyphosate by spraying preseed but perhaps 10 more days is not a big concern. A shift in my thinking may provide better spring weed control and so better options for incrop.
 
#21 ·
I'm confused about the nitrogen?
I am using MSO crop oil with mine, 17$ buys what rate?

When I do anything that needs spartan, your authority I believe I always spray after the seeder and give another shot of glyphosate. Garbs for instance I am doing a burn down about 3-5 days ahead of the seeder and 3-4 days after unless it's going to rain. That usually takes care of the Canada thistle. This year I had to spray right behind the drill and the rain started about 5 minutes before I finished spraying. The last qtr I did I had to spot spray 30 acres of canada thistle in. What a pain..... but 14 days of rain definitely got my spartan working well!
 
#20 ·
When Heat first came out tried using the low rate after seeding and on canola stubble did not even think I got enough kill on volunteer canola that was growing let alone residual. However, now use Heat at high rate and try to get that timing of spray right at groundbreak - around here if you seed peas near 2" deep you wait 10 days(at least) after seeding. If you do this and get any sort of growing conditions think you can avoid other post emergent options. I would avoid growing peas if had to use chemical in the "I" family - except for Viper and want to even be careful with that. Did have some leftover UAN this yr and bit extra with Viper seemed to work well too. I am sure though that other areas are different.

I assumed that Edge might have been used on mustard so maybe not great followup for pea crop following, but do think it a good product on peas as well for grassy other than bad wild oat. Maybe other granular options better in other areas as well.
 
#22 ·
depends on how much rainfall you expect to get I guess but hands down best time to do either authority or focus is really late in the fall.... snow melt / rain will activate it for sure then. have seen that stuff get applied and then just sit for 3-4 weeks too many times now.....
 
#23 ·
$17 is at full label rate. The Nitrogen is recommended to increase the effectiveness of the grassy weed control. The Viper label will give all the info on chemistry.

I am re-thinking Authority (spartan use) like my posting a couple months ago on pea herbicide use. Was trying to get it down before seeding with the thinking some soil mixing was better than none if no rain. I have been humming and hawing about that thinking for a few years now and decided I need to throw that out the window and do my burn down post seeding. And use Authority only where I know I have kochia issues rather than be lazy and spray the entire field. I checked into Heat as a possible alternative but it is $20/ac also so for a guy finding ways to cut herbicide costs for peas with $20/ac Viper and $20 ac Authority then that isn't doing it. However if the Heat means I can swap Viper for a lower cost option because of its residual control then it is worth looking at. And yes, Edge is applied with mustard the year before the peas.

Since I am doing preharvest glyph on the peas it is not necessary to get perfectly clean fields. No one is handing me a big award cheque for having no weeds visible when driving down the road. As long as I can control the kochia to avoid pulling weeds out of a plugged rotor for a couple hours at a time then I have satisfied my #1 objective for a herbicide program. Viper has been working well (excluding this year), maybe I will keep using it but perhaps I can do something different.
 
#24 ·
So, here is my thoughts on spartan/authority
I just dont feel I get the control fall applying, I get a cleaner start but it's not like I'm not going to have to spray anyhow. I will say it does less crop damage fall applied though.

Pre seeding, I'm just moving too much dirt around, I'm getting near zero crop damage but I'm getting weeds growing out of the seed trench.

Pre seed burndown and pre emerge seems to be far and away the best route for me considering it rains. Had my pants down twice and it wasn't pretty.

A friend took another farmers advice this spring on his peas and decided to use sharpen (heat) rather than spartan/ authority. I warned him that if hes going to spend the money get spartan, same money plus the aim in spartan charge definitely adds to the burndown.
Couple weeks ago I sprayed his fungicide and his fields looked spectacular, picture perfect weed control and the works.
Today I drove by....... the kochia isnt stupid thick or anything but somehow its everywhere and standing 2 feet above the peas.

I'm hoping I can just use spartan charge and follow with thistrol. It should work in my mind anyhow cause with my other crops like flax spartan pre and stinger post I have very clean fields
 
#25 ·
If I follow what you are saying SWF, I think you mean "post seed" here:
"Pre seed burndown and pre emerge seems to be far and away the best route for me"



The one thing I learnt this year being really dry is I had kochia in the seed row and less outside the seed row in a few places I looked. So my idea that seeding after Authority was put down in order to get soil mixing to activate is entirely wrong. If you get lots of rain it doesn't matter perhaps. But I think my new preferred approach will be seed and then spray after to obtain an even distribution of chemical and then let the rain activate it evenly across the ground.
 
#26 ·
I had an idea on Authority this year that I never got to try. On my mustard this year, we did a preseed burndown and then came back with only Authority in the tank as I always have way too many escapes wwhen I simply spray a glyphosate/authority mix sprayed post seeding. My possible idea was to spray a half rate of Authority with glyphosate in the preseed burndown and come back a second trip after seeding and spray the other half. My thought is it won't concrentrate as bad above the seed and cause damage while still allowing it to concentrate enough if it rains.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Only did Authority on yellow mustard once when it wasn't registered. I see the Authority label now includes tame mustard at the reduced rate. I will need to remember this for next year as I have some problem areas with pigweed that always show up when mustard is the crop. A few headland areas and locations near old farm yards. Perhaps the low rate won't be 100% effective against pigweed but any reduction in population would be nice.
Edge is supposed to control pigweed but put 20lbs/ac this year on and still have forests of pigweed. Could be the high organic matter content of these areas making the edge less effective.
 
#28 ·
OK - So kochia is one weed we do not have out here so Spartan/Authority not a consideration - I would always go Edge. Edge does have it share of issues aside from cost, but the worst one for me is marked by asterisk - Hemp nettle. I do have some old yard site pig weed areas and actually can really pick out the borders where edge was/was not applied. However, hemp nettle issues whether Fall or Spring applied seem to escape any "suppression" on Edge label. Really noticed this when grew hemp as well as hemp nettle was one weed that seemed to thrive in Edge/hemp.

Given peas highest insured value crop when I do grow them have no issues spending money on them(actually peas are crop that typically spend most money on), but less is always better. Rotating timing of herbicide/weed kill is just as important as different groups around here - I think. I think that as long as peas not seeded too early next Spring following mustard can get enough hemp nettle growing right at ground break that high rate of Heat will torch it/anything else and than will avoid follow up with an expensive Viper type product.

I have been waiting for answer from my mustard buyer, but would really like to desiccate stuff with roundup to feel better about less weed control next yr in peas, Guess if cannot do this likely will have time post harvest. Other cocktail that have heard about, but never tried is Assure/Viper mix supposedly has some sort of action on thistle. Anybody else tried this?

Peas are one crop where should get all the picture opportunities out of the way early as when they start to ripen down it really is the rare case where there not things start sticking out that you never knew you had.
 
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