To till or not to till... - Page 2 - The Combine Forum
 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Ozzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: West OZ, Any further south and you get wet!
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stsdavew View Post
Ok pictures didnt load so here they are...

All that matters is the final Yield and what it cost to get it. If you really want to know if No-till is the go for you then the do some harvest tests using a weigh cart and harvest same length transects along the joining strip so the soil etc is as close as possible to being the same.
All the snake oil salesmen and sellers of the next wonder product always show pics of root systems and growing crop but never publish final yields!!!!
As for No-till being worth it, 95% of the West Australian crop is established using No or Zero till. I dont think 95% of us are completely brainless.

Ozzie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 11:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Fena farms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie View Post
All that matters is the final Yield and what it cost to get it. If you really want to know if No-till is the go for you then the do some harvest tests using a weigh cart and harvest same length transects along the joining strip so the soil etc is as close as possible to being the same.
All the snake oil salesmen and sellers of the next wonder product always show pics of root systems and growing crop but never publish final yields!!!!
As for No-till being worth it, 95% of the West Australian crop is established using No or Zero till. I dont think 95% of us are completely brainless.
I agree because you wonít see a yield difference of 10bu an acre with your naked eye.
We did wheat trails with fall fertility vs spring and there was an increase in yield by 12bu an acre where spring applied and you couldnít tell the difference by looking at it

Fena farms is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 03:02 PM
Senior Member
 
SWMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Killarney, MB
Posts: 7,520
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 2738 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie View Post
As for No-till being worth it, 95% of the West Australian crop is established using No or Zero till. I dont think 95% of us are completely brainless.
Pretty sure nobody in Australia is trying to melt snowbanks, dry up fields and get a crop started in 30 days under a heavy residue load with risk of frost like Manitoba. If I was in Australia I would likely be zero-tilling too, nobody is calling anyone brainless.
lynas likes this.

AN ERROR DOESN'T BECOME A MISTAKE UNTIL YOU REFUSE TO CORRECT IT
Orlando A. Battista
SWMan is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 347
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
What are you seeding with? In my opinion there is a lot of supposed no-till that I think isn't true no-till because the seeding equipment causes too much disturbance even though it leaves a lot of residue behind.


Infiltration is going to be the easiest way to measure a benefit from no-till. Pound a 6" pipe a couple inches into the ground and gently pour water into it and time how long it takes to infiltrate. A 500 mL bottle of water is equal to just over 1"of rain. Try this on the no-till, tilled and an area such as a fenceline.
BrianTee likes this.
cr9060 is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Bar D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Raymore Sk
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMan View Post
There seems to be a lot of straw toxicity going on this year, especially with the canola but even soybeans and cereals are an issue. I think the recent dry years has slowed the rate of decomposition of this crop material.

My best wheat this spring was what I harrowed more for avadex and best canola is on ground protilled twice because of heavy corn residue. I should have protilled ahead of my corn instead of going in direct. I think a guy can get carried away but some tillage is needed to deal with big straw crops IMO. I try to do mine late fall or right ahead of drill to conserve moisture.

We tried zero-till in the 90's and it didn't work for us then, even now with better choppers and fancy drills I don't think it is the path to the biggest crops. Something in the middle seems to be the best....here.

I also wonder about chemical residue and if tillage can help disperse that???

Adsinaus our frost in winter generally deals with our compaction for us. Doubt that is an issue, or the main one.
Iíve got a section of barley that is proof that tillage helps with Chemical Residue. Last year had clear field canola on a section and sprayed with Salute. One quarter of the section was a quarter that I just bought and it was hay about 5 years ago previous owners broke the hay land with a big Wishek disk and then just started seeding straight into it and it was rough so I cultivated it last fall to try and smooth it out. Fast forward to my Barley crop this year pull in the field to do incrop spraying and this barley looks like crap short, leaves are yellow. So start doing headlands and make my way around to the cultivated quarter and itís night and difference between the uncultivated stuff. So cultivating definitely helped break the chemical barrier left from the salute last year.
lynas and SWMan like this.
Bar D is online now  
post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 04:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dubovyy, Russian Federation
Posts: 3,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1101 Post(s)
We burnt the stubble off one oat quarter that was harvested insanely tough and just the bulk of it completely covered the ground.

Then as it turned out we didn’t get back there to seed it almost till the end. Figured it would be absolutely dried out when we finally did get there but the moisture was right at the top and was way more mellow than the stubble right next to it.

Plants came up way quicker and healthier and now come flower almost looks a week ahead.

Not advocating burning but how do I get there from here.

Direct seeded in both cases on the same day. Heavy heavy trash, like pretty much no black after the drill pass.

Even a nh3 pass in the fall make a huge difference on chem residue and ground warming, water infiltration.
joesixpack is online now  
post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 05:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Soil temperature was king this spring , cool nights almost up till half June then we got little rain and higher night temps .
After this period crops started taking off.
No till works perfect but your always have slower crops .
If burning was without long term penalties it would be the best for early maturity and saving fuel .
Grumpie is offline  
post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Interlake Manitoba
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
All very good points here. The prior canola crop was straight cut but both sides were the same this year as both sides were only heavy harrowed so ground temp, straw load etc should have been the same. It was seeded with a disc drill same day all as one field. I guess one possible explaination would be that the ground on the tilled side could have been a little more mellow from prior years tillage thus allowing a slightly deeper seeding depth as i did have the pressure set fairly high to get the seeds in. Probably a record dry year here for us so maybe it just took a little longer for the notill side to germ but i didnt notice any delay as the crop came up. Just seems to be getting behind as time goes on. yes the yeild at the end of the season will tell all. I will have to see if i can get someone to come out with a weigh wagon. Once soybean harvest starts here theres not a lot of spare time for someone to come and do some weighing. I also found that burning sure gives the next crop a big headstart.
stsdavew is offline  
post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 09:15 PM
Senior Member
 
kevlar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: central manitoba
Posts: 2,818
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
No till just doesn't work in some areas, especially heavy land and shorter growing season, and especially so when it's wet. Trust me, we tried for several years and just couldn't make it work. Our land needs a pass in the spring before seeding so we put the nitrogen down first. Heavy land just gets too hard and never dries on a wet year, then on a dry year it's so hard the water won't infiltrate.

It's easy enough to be pleasant, when life goes by like a song. But the man worth while, is the man with a smile, when everything goes dead wrong!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kevlar is online now  
post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old Today, 12:44 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stsdavew View Post
There was nothing obvious that im aware of. That being said if there was compaction issues i was under the impression that switching to no till would eventually take care of itself? The ground is heavy and it is hard now with it being so dry so i am starting to think that it just needs some help to loosen up with a bit of tillage. Ive used a lemken on other fields before seeding and the crops sure seemed to like that...
ďHereĒ ie in this part of Aus w loamy, granite-derived, non-clay (so no shrink/swell) and no freeze/thaw happening on the soils; Iíve seen where people have switched to no-till (disc) system and the challenge has been that theyíre building organic matter etc on the surface, but the deeper compaction and other damage from earlier mgmt practices are still there; and soil structure is taking a long time to change (growing annual crops also = limited window to develop robust root systems and to work through hard pans or for organic matter to build through the profile). This may resolve over time, but whether itís the cost effective way to do it is another question entirely.

Ie Iíve seen one of their neighbouring operators (through the fence) who also switched over, but deep-ripped prior to switching and had an immediate and ongoing increase in productivity. Itís slightly off topic, but thereís plenty of cases in Aus where subsoil acidity is a major constraint on productivity and simply going to no-till alone is unlikely to resolve this issue e.g.
ďA persistent acid layer (the Ďacid throttleí) at 7.5cm to 10cm was not corrected by the lime treatments and is still restricting growth.Ē https://grdc.com.au/resources-and-pu...-acidification


From what you and others that know that part of the world better than me are saying itís unlikely that either of these are what youíre encountering (and I would think it would be showing up on both sides of your paddock).

So, if you bring it back to first principles of plant needs, whatís the tillage supplying or doing better that the no-till isnít?
Is it a better breakdown in plant or chemical residue, better nutrient release from residue, warmer soil earlier/healthier/more rapid growth in an area where lower temps limit growth, better aeration, more friable soil w less resistance to root growth, less water-logging, etc.? And from a business point of view which option (till, no-till) going to net you the most $/Ha

adsinaus is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Combine Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome