The Combine Forum banner

Should some value of dropped straw be paid to renter?

13K views 53 replies 37 participants last post by  FarmingMan82 
#1 ·
It's been a very tough year for ranchers in our area. They only got 15-25% of normal on their hay cut. One of my landlords who I cropshare with is one of these people. The landlord isn't paying any expenses. He is extremely concerned about his feed supplies and rightfully so. We have some wheat to cut on his land and he is demanding I drop the straw so he can bale it. This land is very low in OM, nutrients, and generally gets a mediocre rating as up until a few years ago when I took it on there was very little in the way of inputs and a lot of straw had been removed over the years (hence the poor quality). Building this soil back up requires a lot of fertilizer on my end and a lot of good crops spanning many years. Now I don't like to see straw removed at the best of times, but even more so on land that needs all the nutrients and OM it can get. Just as I take one step forward with this dirt I'm being forced to take 2 steps back. I do however understand the dire situation my landlord is in so I will drop the straw for him.

My question is this: on a cropshare arrangement should the renter be entitled to a portion of the value of the dropped straw and if so how much? I believe that they should be as they not only paid for all the inputs to grow the crop, but going forward those are nutrients and OM that are being removed will limit future crops yield potential and thus will be dollars out of renters (and the Landlords) pocket down the line. I've calculated the value per bale in the form of macro nutrients removed to be around $9.50/800lb bale taken from the field. That doesn't include the very important value of OM and moisture retention capabilities the straw provides. I find so many ranchers see straw as free feed. It's not and never has been. Needless to say when I posed this very question to the landlord it did not go over well at all and was was actually extremely offended and angry I would ask such a question so this may not be an issue going forward anyways if they take back the land.

What do you guys think?
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Standing wheat? Just let it stand till the end and go on it on a hot day. That rotor machine should take care of that straw and turn it into dust. Then drop the straw on the condition he has to bale it all or pay to heavy harrow. Should keep you happy about nutrients and om and he won't be wanting to bale behind your combine ever again. Been there and done that. Colin.
 
#3 ·
I see where this is going!

At your calculations, how many $'s worth of nutrient per acre, forget OM and other benefits?
A bale/ac?

The reality problem is you push this too hard and you will no longer be the renter.

I do agree with your point but that and 3.15 will get you a bus ride in Calgary.

What a schemer crw is, you been hanging around my daughter?
 
#7 ·
I really have no idea how many bales/ac their will be. I'm guessing 35-40bpa grain yield. I know my combines won't do a good job with straw but that doesn't matter to landlord and I honestly want to do a good job to help them. I can't purposly do a bad job and I do understand his plight. I just want it to be fair to both parties. I've spent more time and money on that land and have improved it greatly since taking it on (countless days picking rock, twine, branches, Leveling washouts, disced ridges, huge anount of chemical to control crazy weed problem, etc). This on top of landlord making 2-3X cash rent. I do all this for long term benefit of the land for both of us just giving the straw away feels like I'm being robbed. If I was dropping straw for someone else to bale I would be sure to give landlord their fair share. If I lose the land I lose the land. I'm not one of these guys who needs to farm as many acres as I can. If I don't feel both parties are being treated fairly and it doesn't make my life better than what's the point?
 
#11 ·
This is a year you might want to make an exception for your landlord. This drought was out of his control and he's trying his best to look after his animals. A little compassion now will go a long way into the future for you and possibly your next generation to farm. If you hold your ground and don't help out your landlord you may lose the land and word will get around that you aren't the easiest to deal with. If he gets straw fever and needs it all the time then you deal with it. My dad always told me that if you don't like the way the landlord treats you then either buy the land or move on. It's their land and they have the right to do things as they feel.
 
#14 ·
Sounds like a good day too have a fire ... Leave the last 5 acres to farmgods and have a cigarette...

What a joke - he wants the bales? Than its 30 $ a bale - cattle are worth a few bucks these days... What's that worth, about 2 pairs and he paid the bill-

When I had too much water, no one threw me a floating device-
Too hot, too cold, too wet , too dry, that's farming ...

I'd look for new land and tell him shove it up his as s ...
 
#15 ·
Situations like this is exactly why I only ever have and only ever will cash rent land. End of problems.

But I suppose under a share agreement, he would be entitled to a share of the straw already, how about if you gave him at least half? I normally never bale more than half myself unless I'm short or it is being replaced with manure, so I completely understand where you are coming from on organic material. Then again I image you are running table widths that make baling one, leaving one impractical...honestly I never understand people who think straw is basically worthless and should be free.
 
#16 ·
It's a catch 22, had that happen back in 01 with a cowboy farmer that could not make it in either, he wanted straw dripped and I did not like it but did, it made a mess for years where you could see in in future crops and I lost yeild, also dealt with stings everywhere again, and like you say, it gave up organic matter that was needed in the feild.. Two years after he sold his cows and land to the hutts

Don't think I would do it again, maybe buy his straw doe him if it's not much, heard 50 a bale locally this year, guys even bailing their canola straw on arragation iPad Cowboys buying it
 
#17 ·
I think you're kinda in a tough spot and if it's not spelled out in your rental agreement how straw is dealt with then I think you pretty much have to let him bale it or as others have said, you won't be renting it much longer. Hopefully you can get something in your agreement on how it would be dealt with in the future.
 
#21 ·
Should be your call, if you plan on dropping straw hes due his share. If you plan on shredding it, theres nothing to share. If you got a rotary combine its a moot point, nothing left to bale
 
#23 ·
Have him bring his baler out when you are in the field. Once he realized he can't bale behind your machine he will pack up and go home. At least then You tried.
Had a cattleman want me to drop straw. I agreed because he wasn't a cowboy. He was right behind me with his new green baler that would bale "anything" he claimed. Did one bale, net wrapped it 3 times. Got out looked at it, then called and said I can't do it. Bales are way too fragile. I had only dropped a few acres worth buy then so wasn't a big deal. Dropped spreaders back down and continued on with harvest.
 
#25 ·
If you want to keep the ground you need to work something out. My initial thought is let him take it on the condition that the manure gets spread on the removal acres as others have said.

I see no problem with helping a guy out in circumstances like this, it appears that others would rather say **** him he on his own.

I find it hypocritical that farmers in the u.s.a (not saying this is the case with canadian farmers, just ranting) are the first in line for government handouts, but the last to worry about helping a livestock guy out. The sense of entitlement on their part is obsurd, but worse yet when thet get the "let the livestock guy fend for themselves" attitude.

And whats with this cattle are at an all time high make them pay rhetoric? How many of you sold your grain cheaper to a livestock producer when grains were at all time highs and cattle and hogs were in the tank?
 
#27 ·
Had problems with a guy we rent from, he wanted to fall graze and all this jaz with nothing about his bright ideas in the contract

Or one guy I rent from thinks he needs to disc up wet spots but he just works the dry ground around them, burries the disc in the ground, turns corners with it in the ground, just makes a mess for me to clean up, herbicide dont work right where he works it, canadian thistle grows like mad in them spots.

My cure, raise crops that dont come off till freeze up on the ground where he wants to dig and things like soys on the guy that wants grazing
 
#28 ·
So the question really hasn't been fully answered by most. In a cropshare arrangement is the renter entitled to some form of compensation for the straw if it's removed and if so how much? Basically the options are:

1) No. All straw belongs to landlord

2) Yes: at some percentage either same as grain share or otherwise. Tell me your share splits? This could easily be deducted from landlords grain share.

3) if possible replace removed nutrients with manure. Concerns of weed seeds, even spread, is incorporation necessary?

I have clearly stated that I will drop the straw to help the landlord out even though it does a disservice to the land and future yield potential. It's a tough year. I get it. That's not the question here. Would I be cut any slack from any landlord if the crops were terrible for whatever reason: not a chance. Landlords are making tons of money from shares or cash-rent arrangements and this essentially adds another 20-25/ac to their payment. To me it's not fair to the renter. My thoughts are that value of dropped straw should be split same as cropshare arrangement. If rent is based on cash, I would go 75-25 tennant/landlord. However on a bad year like this I think 50-50 is as fair as It gets. Adding manure back to land is a great suggestion in theory but I'm skeptical on its value in practice. It seems like a great way to add weed seeds like NLHB across the farm. I also don't think the sheer volume required to cover the land base is possible but I get what some of you are saying.
 
#29 ·
The straw is yours, its a crappy deal, I hope telling him how it is doesn't loose ya dirt, this year will likely have to be a year for leanency since its a poor year and could be again nezt year so it will cut into your pocket

I wouldn't even cosider share cropping

Maybe for a min I would nake him hire someone with a cyl/walker machine to harvest it or better yet, pinch your concaves closed and try to chew up the straw so its impossible to bale

Its a shady deal for sure
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top