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Render Under Trudeau

29K views 135 replies 43 participants last post by  LutzSK 
#1 · (Edited)
I just want to point out while many of you are busy trying to get your crops off, the Liberal govt is quietly implementing legislation that will affect capital gains exemptions and transfer of your business to your family members.

He has hit every group in canada with his oppressive tax changes and wasteful use of funds and now farmers are in the cross hairs. Bad enough your kids are going to inherit a huge federal debt in the hundreds of billions of dollars, maybe even a trillion.

An election cant come fast enough. I really fear for the future of this country.
 
#2 ·
Time for our farmer organizations to take our hard-earned check-off money and start doing some real work and buy up some billboards in Toronto and such, maybe some TV spots or ads on facebook or something to reach those who don't see how the people that pay the bills are being abused. And I mean some hard-hitting stuff!

Time for each and every person who reads this thread to email or call Andrew Scheer and their MP and make a big stink about how they plan to not let this continue. Contact info here: Current Members of Parliament
I suggest they:
>Stop playing nice with the far-left mainstream media.
>Take every opportunity to point out that if Trudeau ran any other business or job the way he is running the country, he would be FIRED IMMEDIATELY!!!
>Make a list of his screw-ups and remind people at every chance.
>Make promises you can(and will) keep.
>Start putting the country first instead of themselves. My first suggestion is that they offer to lower MP salaries 50% if elected, this ought to guarantee they get in.

I hate to make it all about the leader as the government is filled with unqualified people, but we really need to keep the message simple and the far-left media uses Trudeau as the poster boy for everything. The simple message is he is plain-and-simple unqualified and irresponsible. That is an indisputable fact!

Guys, it has been said many times and it so true: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
 
#5 ·
I've never even been to Canada and I'm pissed off about it. Feel bad for you guys. It makes me seriously wonder if people are going to have to starve before they pull their heads out of their backsides.
 
#8 ·
Friend, you cant be a farmer and seriously think you should pay more tax. It might be 11.5% inside the corp but it still comes out personally at 35-50%. The tax rate reflects the risk with the industry. On top of that farmers pay huge property taxes and sometimes dont even have a school in their RM. On top of that, farms are pretty much the only thing keeping hundreds of rural communities afloat. The capital gains is our pension plan since we dont have a taxpayer funded plan. Imagine if the public sectors pension got rolled back 20%.

But you dont have to wait for Trudeau, you can send him your extra right now.
 
#7 ·
If this goes through, I will be putting up my own massive billboard right on my land along the trans Canada hiway, with his ugly mug and the nastiest true text I can legally get away with writing on it, so every tourist and Canadian driving across Alberta will know what a bum he is.
P.S. naughtly will be up there too, I am tired of this.
 
#11 ·
The changes are related to your family. If you transfer your business to a family member there are tax breaks for such a move. They want to set it up like its a sale to another unrelated farmer which is taxed higher.

Also a farmer and his/her spouse can claim $1MM in capital gains exemption, but your kids can also claim $1MM each as well. I think they want to roll back the kids exemptions with the argument being they didnt have a hand in building the business.
 
#13 ·
I honestly didn't know kids had capital gains exemptions that I could use, I know people who pay their kids ridiculous amounts but if they get audited I think they will regret it. It's fine as long as the kids keep the money but most parents get it back from them so it's pretty cut and dried in court then.

Can someone give me a scenario where anybody's kids need a capital gains exemption? I understand the rules as they pertain to me and my wife but have never heard anything about kids. I assumed that they would grow up and have the same exemption as me (assuming the rules stay the same). Currently you have to farm for 3 years to qualify, I assumed they would as well. Be hard to convince CRA that my kids under 3 been farming that long.

Or maybe i'm completely missing the point, I realize not everyone's kids are little but if they are older and actively farming and own farmland or shares wouldn't they be eligible?
 
#14 ·
Good luck on convincing people we need hose tax breaks when all they see is multi million dollar equipment in the fields, especially on corped farms, pulling the short rope here, goverment is handing out too much money and they will take it were the money is one way or the other. Hoping KAP or the check off groups will do anything is like believing in santa clause, the only way to win this is to take the goverment to court and sue them and win, but that would be a long and bumpy road.
 
#18 ·
I'm no tax expert but my understanding of the big risk from the new legislation is that you will need to demonstrate that income splitting is not just tax avoidance but in fact reflects actual contributions to the farm. That could mean a whole bunch of extra paper trail but right now its hard to say exactly what it looks like. The same concern applies to the capital gains exemption. None of this will mean anything until its published and tested in the court but its definitely time to talk to your tax advisor.
 
#22 ·
Taxing inflation - exactly. And you wonder why governments have no objection to pumping billions of dollars into the system with borrowed money, or where/how the 1% keep getting richer. It has nothing to do with right wing ideologies. But now you can understand the clamouring to tax those 1% people, it is not fair that they own assets that have appreciated in value through bank policy (not right wing ideologies) though the left wing media will drone on and one about wealth inequality, income gap, etc and say only more left wing policy will fix this.

In summary, i see more of this coming in the future. If inflation keeps doing its thing then expect more taxation and policy to claw back money on asset appreciation. Property taxes, capital gains and such are just another tool. And of course it will be stated all as the virtues of the left wing ideology. A farmer may be no means rich but they certainly fall into the 1% when government start looking at taxing inflation that created asset appreciation.

Governments and banking are scared to death of the idea of deflation.
 
#24 ·
at least 1/4 of the farmers in my experience are selfish crooks who lack perspective on local and worldly issues. Accountability and honesty with the general public are the only things that are going to win people over who then can vote properly to correct any issues.

Our image in the minds of the majority:

We are supported by subsidies which is "unfair because my fitness center doesn't get subsidies!)

We all drive tricked out F350 king ranch pickups as grocery getters. And we trade up every year because of "taxes"

We use nasty chemicals that cause cancer, autism, diabetes

We pollute drinking water

We are lazy. (What do you do in the winter? your June and July are basically open right?... etc)


My general points above may not be totally accurate for each region, but we have an image/lack of education problem that needs to be addressed. Lobbying is a hamster wheel cycle that only addresses the symptom not the problem. The ONLY thing that has changed the mind of a stout "anti-farming" mindset is showing my budget, debt load, and the potential for weather of all types to hamper my business. My rant has nothing to do specifically with the captial gains situation in Canada, but I couldn't help myself.
 
#27 ·
I can only assume by your posts that you take no deductions or exemptions in order to pay the maximum amount of tax you possibly can, correct? Perhaps you are so generous that you even send the government more of your money than you are required with normal taxes, correct?

As for Joe Blow buying a beer, he can have as many as he wants on his own paycheck, I may even be willing to buy Joe a beer if I met up with him in the tavern. I do not however appreciate the government taking my hard earned money and giving it to Joe to sit on his ass and drink his beer. Doesn't quite seem fair, does it?
 
#28 ·
If you want to help out the poor and make the system as fair as possible, put a straight through sales tax on everything except food and clothing.
 
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#29 ·
Listen , my family is healthy , they all have jobs and are happy with what there doing .
My farm is healthy, all paid for and no debt .
I do have somebody doing my books ,and his job is bring the tax burden down !
So I do pay tax but as a corp I only pay 11.5 % up to 500 k after that it can run up to 50 %
I did live in Belgium before and believe me I stay in Canada .
Not locking doors leave key in vehicle and farming , my hobby , is great.
But I complain about persons that have lots in this world but don't have enough, or complain that they're not able to pass on after they hit the bucket .
If you study very rich , most are hard to have around and that's saying it politically correct .
I do think that corporations should pay more tax ,cause of to many flaws in the system ,whereas labourers have no change to put money in their pockets
Think that JT does a decent job , can't Blame him for all , that pretty short thinking .
On the other hand is I farmed in the USA I would pack my suitcase yesterday.
Have a good one ......
 
#30 ·
In general, farmers are rich in assets and inventory. The problem comes in that those assets are generally tied up in a corporation and are thus very expensive to realize personally. The inventory has issues being moved reliably and when needed.

In my short career so far I've found that assets are plentiful but cash is rare. Although, it could be more that so far it's been better to avoid having cash.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Compared to most on the list I probably come off as a very liberal person, despite being actually extremely conservative. But corporate taxes are one area that I definitely can not agree with Grumpie on. In fact I take the fairly radical view that corporate taxes of most kinds of really ill-conceived and should be abolished. The reason is that, except for farmers and similar occupations, corporations do not pay tax. Period. The tax they do pay is an illusion, an accounting trick. The reality is that any and all taxes placed on corporations in general get passed on 100% to the end customers, which is to say, all of us. So corporate taxes often look good for governments in the eyes of voters, but it's just a consumer tax really. Which, by the way I'm not opposed to. Eliminate income tax and instead make all of it a consumption tax. But I digress.

As far as I know our farm has never used any of the tax provisions that are proposed to change. Generational transition occurred without any buyouts. Guess we were lucky that way; the older generation already had a retirement income. So my question is, how many of you are going to be directly affected by these changes a) right now and b) a long ways in the future?

As a postscript, I also note that any attempt to reform or simplify the tax code leads to a more convoluted, complex, contradictory, and broken tax code. Be wary of any politician who promises to do so, even more wary of one who actually tries it.
 
#33 ·
Grumpie is exactly that, grumpy.
So how do you propose a child get into farming these days..? Let's say some woman accidentally let grumpie have a child with her, so when that kid comes of age and you want your loins to get into farming, you are gonna be just too happy to give him the whole farm (which your dad most likely gave to you) and lets say it's only a few quarters, not 50, that kid would have to sell off two of the quarters to a stranger just to pay for the taxes, so he could at least keep the other two..wow, sounds like an awesome deal to me, not!
All because of capital gains on inflation.
Or he could borrow One or two million, which no bank will do, on top of his operating loan, which will be impossible to pay off unless he gets bumper crops back to back for 30 years straight..
it is all perspective, a young guy like me, I am several millions in debt, I have no choice, because I was given next to nothing, so if I do get a quarter or two down the road from the old man I would have to borrow just to pay the taxes.. F* that! But sure, there are farmers across the fences that have been around for 5 generations and have up to 50 quarters to pass down, of course they make millions a year, I also don't believe they should have to pay capital gains either, even though they can afford to lose half their land base and still be well off.
It just comes down to these moron politicians who want to redistribute the wealth to lazy bums, people with no initiative or skills..and somehow we owe them something or are obligated to make sure they have just as high as a standard of living, without putting any effort in.. or risk!


Not trying to be mean to grumpie, just poking a little fun.
 
#52 · (Edited)
Are you for real? I think you need a better accountant, gone are the days of trying a stunt like that. Also this plan of theirs was well well thought out, my brother has a very high folught'n accountant, he said all the back doors are already closed, once this goes through we are hooped, they knew people would rush to try transfer lands somehow before the effects kicked in, so they closed every other possibility ahead of time.
This affects me a lot, basically any young farmer hoping to at least get one quarter or many quarters, or shares in an existing farm. With such extreme debt loads and high costs and risks, the family farms will fail.
N.B. My neighbour has 50 quarters all paid for and his son was working as an employee for years to prove he is dedicated and will not just sell it all off or mess it all up, now for him to get into the operation (which was handed down for years), will now need to liquidate about 30% of the land base if he chooses to continue, just to cover the tax bill.
And if you think, wow hey, opportunity for you to buy.. uh, no, foreign investment will be grabbing the land or the Hutterites, because they will be unaffected.
I will be busy trying to manage my own tax bills too.

An to the guy who said immigrants are not lazy, are you kidding me? I have seen many countries, only to see the locals would rather play their gambling activities or just stand around rather then pick up garbage around them or work... why do you think they have such big families, they do nothing all day but F***.
I welcome different people here, as long as they want to contribute and justify themselves being here. But trust me, I have worked in numerous plants and construction sites, sad to say, but many are here only to take all they can. A true fact, there are many minorities in this nation by quite a bit, yet the Canadian Military is over 98% white, why is that? Because many of the minority citizens only view Canada as where they are living now, it is not their home...

It's a tough topic, taxes, because If it were spent wisely we wouldn't feel so bad.
And anyone who has a bleeding heart for the poor or new Canadians, you are fully capable of donating all your income, assets, and open your home to them. Nothing is stopping you.
 
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