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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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On the news today there was "concessions " made to make walonia happy but no details ? Wondering how this is going to come out in the next couple years. Hope we (grain farmers) didn't get stepped on to make the deal go thru. Any access to European markets is still better than what we had before imo.

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 03:58 AM
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I would be willing to bet that by this point in the negotiation they had already sold Canadian agriculture down the river so badly the only thing left would be to offer a harvest of our organs and use the proceeds to subsidize Lithuanian ostrich farmers.

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 07:47 AM
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Sign your kids up now, there's gonna be a shortage of truck drivers, dock workers and paper pushers. It'll be wonderful to get cheap cheese and expensive car parts imported from Europe while we export raw products, I have no idea how we made it without CEDA!
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 09:59 AM
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From what I understand, a corporation had the right to sue a govt, the small nation wanted that changed, so it's being reviewed by EU courts.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 11:18 AM
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I don't really understand how this works in principle. So your government provides incentives to a local industry to get that industry to expand and improve the local economy with hopes to export throughout the country and export outside the country. These incentives or subsidies, come in the form of tax breakes, cheap credit made available, government money invested as capital, etc. The industry therefore thrives to the point product is exported to other countries. These other countries recognize that because of these subsidies, the products are landing with in their borders and destroying their local industry. So you apply a tariff to level the playing field because you can not force the other government to stop what it is doing.

So, with that said. Now that the tariffs are off does that mean all these subsidies are removed too? Is that the future? One common environment of taxation and other incentives, just get rid of the borders then. How else could it work?

The bullshitt put forth by our governments is that the lowest cost producer will win the market share. Has anyone explained that in any sensible manner? For example, is your cost of production as a grain farmer for example not heavily dependent on land taxes, personal income taxes, cost of fuel, now a carbon tax, and value of currency - to name a few. Basically our livelihood is at the whims of various levels of government to a large extent. Therefore tariffs seems to be how all these factors were accommodated. Without the tariffs does it become which ever government creates a business friendly environment win out?

I can not see myself in support of these deals. If you want to make trade easier you just do it via negotiations on specific tariffs, you do not need a trade agreement to accomplish this. For that reason i beleive there is merit to the rumors that these deals are more about fixing a corporate environment than about benefiting the little guy.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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I'm still hoping we will see some benefit from ceta. Without nafta we would see a big change in how grain flows across the border south. Harper changed our gov support programs and dumped the CWB in order to get this deal started years ago. Notice how our crop insurance coverage options have shrunk over the last few years to the point they are barely covering anything but a total loss on the whole farm? We have crop out but it's not enough to to get paid on. Getting covered on the bottom 60% dosn't seem good enough.

Growing forward is similar to the European style of gov programs in the way it encourages new technology it's just ours is barely worth the hassle most of the time and it has no real direction or oversight by anyone who cares. It takes forever to get paid after you get quotes from all over the place then they expect you to wait for months to get approval to buy the equipment. It's totally nuts how the program is run everyone involved is unsure of what is going on and it seems like everything they do is "the first time we've done this". That being said if growing forward is the way we need to support farms to keep the eu happy why don't they put some thought and money into it? Ceta has already cost us a pile farmers and I hope they got thier **** togeather on this deal.

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmb View Post
I don't really understand how this works in principle. So your government provides incentives to a local industry to get that industry to expand and improve the local economy with hopes to export throughout the country and export outside the country. These incentives or subsidies, come in the form of tax breakes, cheap credit made available, government money invested as capital, etc. The industry therefore thrives to the point product is exported to other countries. These other countries recognize that because of these subsidies, the products are landing with in their borders and destroying their local industry. So you apply a tariff to level the playing field because you can not force the other government to stop what it is doing.

So, with that said. Now that the tariffs are off does that mean all these subsidies are removed too? Is that the future? One common environment of taxation and other incentives, just get rid of the borders then. How else could it work?

The bullshitt put forth by our governments is that the lowest cost producer will win the market share. Has anyone explained that in any sensible manner? For example, is your cost of production as a grain farmer for example not heavily dependent on land taxes, personal income taxes, cost of fuel, now a carbon tax, and value of currency - to name a few. Basically our livelihood is at the whims of various levels of government to a large extent. Therefore tariffs seems to be how all these factors were accommodated. Without the tariffs does it become which ever government creates a business friendly environment win out?

I can not see myself in support of these deals. If you want to make trade easier you just do it via negotiations on specific tariffs, you do not need a trade agreement to accomplish this. For that reason i beleive there is merit to the rumors that these deals are more about fixing a corporate environment than about benefiting the little guy.
Imo Our only real play in Europe is selling high protein /quality wheat to blend off the poor stuff when they need it over there. And maybe some non gmo canola. But who wants to grow that stuff? Lol.
We're not going to compete with the Black Sea wheat on price anyways. They can load it on boats for less than what we want at the elevator in the middle of the continent. Quality is really all we have to offer that other countries don't. Not this year though. That's why growing more general purpose and Cps really doesn't do us any favours in the long run. We should concentrate on high quality/protein cause I'm not willing to price match with the poorer quality grain out there.

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