Cleaning and selling seed - The Combine Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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Cleaning and selling seed

Why can I not clean and then offer for sale, seed?
What is the reasoning?
Is it that the purity cannot be proven or that it is competition with our local seed cleaning plant?

I just dont fully understand why I cant clean up some nice hard red wheat (whatever variety) pay the plant breeder rights and move the seed?


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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 04:12 AM
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Not sure what the regulations are in Canada but here (that I understand anyways) it has to be from certified seed, inspected during the growing season to make sure it is in fact the correct variety, breeder rights/royalties paid... Needs to be free of prohibited weed seeds, probably missing some other things. Different guys often have certain varieties of wheat or oat seed available locally and they aren't affiliated with any big seed operation.


Not sure how it works for someone selling something as VNS (Variety Not Stated) as in the case of winter rye for cover crop seed.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 05:55 AM
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We are not allowed to sell wheat as seed either. Because the seed cleaners must prove that it is certified seed. Also whether it is F 1, F2 ect.... The seed producers are not allowed to sell any F1 an F2. You can keep your own seed from F3. But cannot sell it........ But if you trust your neighbor enough, that it is the variaty that you seek, you can buy from him..... Just dont advertise as a seed. We don't pay royalties, but deduction on tons delivered.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 06:40 AM
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I can't see why you can't. The question is whether or not the holder of the PBR of whatever variety you want to sell would be willing to sell you rights to the seed. I have no idea how one goes about paying the PBR I guess you can try just calling the company you bought it from. Also would you be looking to sell seed as "certified" or just Common seed" because that makes a difference.

Here is a database of all crops currently listed as a variety in Canada. A number of the old varieties have no PBR at all.

https://seedinnovation.ca/resources-...-pbr-database/
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnviL View Post
Why can I not clean and then offer for sale, seed?
What is the reasoning?
Is it that the purity cannot be proven or that it is competition with our local seed cleaning plant?

I just dont fully understand why I cant clean up some nice hard red wheat (whatever variety) pay the plant breeder rights and move the seed?
The reasoning is for purity to meet seed standards and absences of weed seeds. It is so the buyer gets a quality product when purchasing.

It has zero to do with protecting your local seed cleaning plant. In fact, I would suggest that your local seed cleaning plant has all the right equipment, people with expertise and knowledge of all the rules and regulations to do a great job of cleaning your seed to the appropriate standards.

The seed industry in Canada have no way for anyone except a seed grower or a seed company to just pay the plant breeder rights. They would rather you sell seed to someone, then they catch you in the act, send the seed police out to charge the buyer, seller, processor(cleaner) and everyone else involved in the deed, lock your bank accounts so they can have enough cash for you to pay the fines involved,then take everyone to court.

But if you choose a older varieties that is not Pbr protected, you can legally sell it as common seed. But is it on the list so you can deliver it to your elevator and sell it into the export market?

The feed market is not a problem.

I know if I buy certified seed for a small field from a seed growers, plant it on a field with a proper 4 year rotation, I can get a bin full of seed to use myself for the next 4 or 5 years. And it is better seed than I sometimes get for more than double or triple the price from a seed grower.

But I cannot sell it to anyone else to use as seed, but I have to sign a declaration that it is a approved variety. But once I sell it, I have no idea what the buyer does with it nor do I care. But I am still legally responsible if the said buyer cleans it up for seed and sells it to someone else.

Clear as mud??
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Yea ok, that all makes sense. Kinda figured it was more complex than just cleaning. As mentioned it is kinda sad because I have seen some pretty ugly looking "seed" offered for sale at seed prices from our local seed cleaning plant.

Too bad you or I couldn't sell a modern "controlled" variety to a neighbor (we got a good bench shaker seed cleaner, and have kicked around the idea of a color sorter) and pay the plant breeders rights. I mean if we didn't produce for sale a nice clean pure sample, we wouldn't be in business long. But if people continue to buy our seed because they're happy with it, it's another revenue stream for the plant breeders..... then they dont need to charge end point royalties......
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 01:40 PM
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If I am not mistaken, declarations are not signed based on variety, but on class. You are asked if the delivery you are making comes from a class of wheat, CWRS, CPS, CWRW, etc, not what variety it is. Also, variety designation only lasts for a certain amount of years, if you bought the seed as certified, I believe you have the year grown, the next year, and then it is common seed anyway. If you get the seed as foundation, breeders, etc, the years on that are extended, but the fields must also be certified by a licensed company that what is being grown is a certain per cent pure, no mutants, etc. It has been a number of years since I have been a part of the seed business, and Im sure there are people on here that can clear this up.
As far as selling the seed, I don't think there are any issues with selling common seed, you just can't call it anything other than common. As soon as you put a variety in there, that is where the law gets broken. Also, please correct me if I am wrong here, like I said it has been a few years since I was anywhere involved in seed dealers rights.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 02:33 PM
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There must be regulations within the seed industry about field history as well? Imagine if you grew Brandon in a field 2 or 3 years ago, then grow Muchmore this year, that Muchmore will be 'contaminated' with volunteer Brandon and there's no way to clean that out.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lurker18 View Post
If I am not mistaken, declarations are not signed based on variety, but on class. You are asked if the delivery you are making comes from a class of wheat, CWRS, CPS, CWRW, etc, not what variety it is. Also, variety designation only lasts for a certain amount of years, if you bought the seed as certified, I believe you have the year grown, the next year, and then it is common seed anyway. If you get the seed as foundation, breeders, etc, the years on that are extended, but the fields must also be certified by a licensed company that what is being grown is a certain per cent pure, no mutants, etc. It has been a number of years since I have been a part of the seed business, and Im sure there are people on here that can clear this up.
As far as selling the seed, I don't think there are any issues with selling common seed, you just can't call it anything other than common. As soon as you put a variety in there, that is where the law gets broken. Also, please correct me if I am wrong here, like I said it has been a few years since I was anywhere involved in seed dealers rights.
You are correct on everything except the last paragraph.

Any variety with PBR or Upov91 attached, you can clean and seed for yourself forever but you can not sell to anyone else. They way around that is to call it common seed but that is not legal the way the law is written.

I am not a seed grower, just involved with a seed plant locally and a farmer that has done some reading.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Marusko View Post
There must be regulations within the seed industry about field history as well? Imagine if you grew Brandon in a field 2 or 3 years ago, then grow Muchmore this year, that Muchmore will be 'contaminated' with volunteer Brandon and there's no way to clean that out.
This is the reason our farm got out of seed reproduction. The amount of paperwork, scheduling, inspection, barrier boundaries, etc. made the job more effort than it was worth. The contamination between varieties was a major issue, both getting the crop inspected as well as rouging (manually pulling off varieties or mutants) from the crop was always something we all looked forward to. Now with DNA identification being commonplace, it is much easier to detect these mixes before they are released to the public, and the problems expand without anyone really knowing about it.

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