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JD 12.5lt mess

58K views 114 replies 51 participants last post by  Oat King 
#1 ·
Our 9860 STS 2006 model combine had a water pump bearing failure.
Is this a common issue with this motor? Was or is there any update to this stupid designed water pump? Having trouble justifying the $75000 quoted by dealers for a reman engine, when if we had been told to replace pump at 3000 hrs for $700. Does other JD 12.5l engines fit?
It used to be John Deere green for go. Our current fleet of John Deere equipment is very unreliable and is costing us a small fortune in repairs and the service from John Deere....well is at best poor. If anyone has any ideas that would be greatly appreciated. Cheers
 
#2 ·
Was talking to our service manager about this subject this year. We send 1 combine in each year for a service/inspection. (We do the 2nd combine in our shop.) 9860 + 9870.

We are only 1400ish hours on the machines. Up front, he said that JD does not have any official guidelines on replacing water pumps or fan bearings. He said that in his experience, the water pumps tend to go between 2500-3000 hours. Some earlier, some later. He has had guys change them every 1000hrs and he has had guys ignore them entirely. Fan bearings last longer, but he always recommends to do the fan bearings while doing a water pump since the labour has already been spent to get into the front of the engine area.

In the end, we decided that when we pass the 2000hr mark, we will change them.

Our JD9400 4WD with 12.5L had a water pump replaced around 3600hrs. We caught it just as it went - got lucky!

Andrew
 
#3 ·
Thanks Andrew, our dealer when first notified of combine stopping responded " highly unlikely a water pump, never had any issues" after talking to other dealers, John Deere mechanics pretty common issue with 12.5 engine.
Thanks again.
 
#6 ·
I feel for you JPS.
It is a well known problem, but it seems only to ALL the poor suckers who have had the failure, and to JD themselves.

The whole stinking mess screams law suit to me but no one really wins there.

Your basically screwed. Unless something in your insurance will cover it. Or maybe when the water pump failed, it caused the machine to catch on fire, wink wink.

I have heard of many engine failures in OZ due to that water pump.
 
#8 ·
Engine doesn't overheat. Doesn't get a chance to.. Bearing fails on water pump, which is positioned above timing gears, bearing falls into timing gears etc, end result cracked head cracked block, destroyed every gear on front of motor. Great design.
 
#10 ·
Can anyone help? Why wouldn't any 12.5lt John Deere engine fit? We have all the bolt on bits to go in combine. Dealer here craps on about serial numbers need to match etc and tractor motors won't fit, when give them all the serial numbers they come up with some other number. They don't get paid by John Deere to think outside the square and are only interested in the $75k solution. Great service John Deere - thanks.
 
#11 ·
You could really cheese off your Deer dealer and do something like swap in a C-13 cat. I'm sure you could get one for less than $75k. I suppose it would be a PITA to get all the electronics to work, it might get your dealer thinking outside the box if you start proposing 'radical' ideas. I'm not a Deer guy so I don't know what physical differences there are between the tractor and combine engines. I would imagine the ECM and the turbo? may be different, but I'm assuming that they don't have a different block. Some times these deer dealers a miserable to deal with, which is why I don't deal with them, unless its unavoidable.
 
#13 ·
I also had a water pump fail on a 9500. I was close to a water well and I ran a lot of water in the radiator before I knew what had made it get hot. I drained all of water and called my J.D. man. He told me to flush it with diesel fuel and run it with diesel and engine oil mix for a few about 15 seconds after I had installed a new water pump. I drained that mix and did that four times, changing the filter each time. I then I ran it with oil only for a short time, drained that over night. The next day I added new oil , filter and ran it about an hour in the field. I drained that out and more new oil and filter. The engine had 900 hrs. on it at the time. I am still running it a 2500 hrs. The J.D. house likes to sell me oil and filters!! I hope you can use this and save your engine.
 
#15 ·
Ya I'm pretty sure there was a thread about this already. It's a common problem I've seen a few engine rebuilt because of this issue. I've replaced lots of pumps on tractors none on combines yet. New water pumps have a cage on them to keep the balls from the bearings falling into the timing gears.
 
#17 ·
New water pumps have a cage on them to keep the balls from the bearings falling into the timing gears.
Well, it's good to hear that a newer pump is available that, at least tries to, fix the problem.


Engine doesn't overheat. Doesn't get a chance to.. Bearing fails on water pump, which is positioned above timing gears, bearing falls into timing gears etc, end result cracked head cracked block, destroyed every gear on front of motor. Great design.
Yup. Gear driven water pump. Stupid idea.

What exactly was wrong with a belt driven water pump anyway?

I'm surprised that nobody has come up with a way to place the water pump in the block, but instead of having a shaft come out the back of it with a seal that can fail, put the shaft out the front and come up with a way to belt drive it.

Andrew
 
#18 · (Edited)
If it was run off of the crankshaft pulley, the pump speed would be directly tied to engine RPM. Same on the gear train.

Andrew

Edit: Regarding the 50's series question. I wasn't sure, so had a look at jdparts. 4250 shows both a belt driven and gear driven water pump. 4650/4850 shows gear driven. 8450 shows belt driven.
 
#20 ·
So I'm confused. Never looked closely at a 50 series or newer design. But I'm assuming even with the gear driven pump there still must be a fan belt that would also turn the alternater of course. So does the fan run independently of the water pump off the belt, or is it driven off the water pump gear driven shaft? Just gonna take a wild guess but I had some literature around here at one time on the 50s, and I know they had increased fuel efficiency over the 40s. I remember somthing about a variable speed fan. So mabye running the fan independent of the pump was part of achieving the better efficiency. Any input anyone?
 
#22 ·
While non of this is real helpful to JPS's original question. I would have to agree with you about John Deere and all there bs serial numbers Mumbo jumbo. Just like a 404 out of a 105 will bolt right into a 4020. I'm sure no different on the 00 and 20 series combines as well. I'm sure the serial numbers are different but the only real difference is combine oil filter is located externally instead of internally, and swapping out the manifolds and oil pan. Wouldn't think it would be any different today. Although all the electronics they have now may be an issue. If you can't get any answers on here and you have half way decent memory. Go to a salvage yard and look over a 12.5 from a tractor to see whether all the bore holes are in the casting that would match up to your combine mounts. Then I would think it would be just matter of changing out turbo, manifolds, oil pan etc if needed. But then like I said before wiring/electronics could be the deal breaker on on today's machines. Imo John Deere and every other manufacturer grabbed every farmer by the balls when they eliminated solid connections to drive components and replaced them with electronic componants. Nice and easy to operate I'm sure, but a PITA when it doesen't.
 
#23 ·
On JD parts page the short block assembly (part number RE524829) and head (part number RE518554) cross over to numerous other models, including 9X00 and 9X20 series tractors. Some components may be different but as you said you have all the bits from the combine, the basics will all be the same. There is a serial number break on the short block that subs it up to the same part number as after the serial number break (RE528462). I don't see why it couldn't be done, what does it matter if the serial numbers don't match? Check it out for yourself at jdpc.deere.com.
 
#32 ·
While I'm in the mood to buy a water pump to put in my 9220 as a preventative measure, should I plan to do it on the 9330 as well? It's a gear-drive pump as well, but looks to be a different design. Is the 13.5 L engine vulnerable to failure in the same was as the 12.5?
 
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