SSTT side ways snake train tractor (idea for a new tractor possibly) - The Combine Forum
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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Lightbulb SSTT side ways snake train tractor (idea for a new tractor possibly)

Hey! sorry for long post. i get a typing and it ends up being a brainstorming session for me...

i been working, on trying to come up with a new tractor / implement setup. that completely gets away of current age setups. and starting to get some what figured out, and thought i would broaden my view. and look for other websites, and hopefully find some interesting folks, that may want to help out.

example.... many of the current age implements can have any were from 4 to 20 plus wheels / tires on them. but these wheels / tires are not powered. yet you see a mix of type of treads on them, from R1 Ag tires, to forestery R1W treads (taller treads of an R1) to regular road truck tires, to 1 to 3 bar tires, to other..

example... trying to pull 30 to 60 plus foot implement down the road, and taking up 1.5 single lanes. standard road has 2 lanes, each 8 feet wide approx. plus or minus a few inches, (if looking at wiki for global specs of roads, it is for most part about equal across the world) and then doing the old dodging of mail boxes, guard rails, signs along the road, and the ugly rough edge of the road, that one side of tractor ends up riding. and then the pesky, impulsive dangerous drivers trying to get around you.

example... using this huge honking tractor out in front, were all the wheels of the tractor are located within a few feet of each other, and were all the traction is found. vs spreading the weight and traction out more.

example... dealing with wheel slippage, and wheel hop on bigger tractors that have 12 wheels (3 front right, 3 front left, 3 rear left, 3 rear right) and causing both compaction and loss of traction. due to the drive train not able to deal with individual tires, and allow them to turn at different RPM's vs all the other tires.

example... some folks needing to redo there gates and driveways, and culverts to get in and out of the homestead, and in/out of a field. and some may choose to go with a smaller width setup. vs going with something that is larger, that is not able to fit through the gates and over culverts.

example... dealing with various "bulk materials" containers / wagons, from seed, fertilizers, pesticides, and then harvested crop. and the logistics of it all. and how many drivers you have, vs what actually needs to be done.

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i have been working on this "idea" for a few months now. and starting to get things nailed down. but still a lot left to get the "general idea" and overall doings down. and things tend to change daily, one small idea, has caused things to completely change from entirely different setup a few times over.

with above said....

the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor), the name has sort of stuck. like a train with multi cars going down the train track, but in this case, for the SSTT, when in "transport mode", it works like a train going down the road per say. and then once in the field. tires turn 90 degrees, and entire setup is no longer 8 feet wide, 60 feet long. BUT 60 foot wide, 8 feet long, and then implements unfold off the top of the SSTT, for another so many extra feet longer.

i have split the cab, from the main unit and implements. and looking more at a CAB, having a small little engine on it, enough to putt around a few MPH, and when the SSTT is in (transport mode), the cab would kinda look like a semi truck and trailer behind it. the trailer being the SSTT main frame, big engine, and implement. and when in field mode, the cab could disconnect all together from the main SSTT / implement and do a "wireless internet connection like thing for control", or disconnect from the 8 foot end, and connect to 1 of 3 to 5 different spots on the 60 foot side of the SSTT.

to restate above, the CAB, could be a 4 wheeler, full size truck, semi truck, or customized unit, geared directly for farming, and the SSTT. the SSTT main body / frame, would have the 100 to 1000 HP engine on it. fuel tank for large engine. the primary reason to split the cab apart from everything else is physical SPACE. doing a little bit of searching on internet, showed world wide, approx max size is 8 foot wide, 60 foot long, 14 feet high. anything over those 3 dimensions normally requires some sort of special drivers licenses, or you end up getting limited to 1 hour after sun rises, and 1 hour before sun sets, or require vehicles in front and behind, to get down the roads legally. if i split the "cab" from the main unit. it frees up a huge space for folding up implements, and there is less hinge joints, to try and fold up an implement that would be required. also looking at some laws... there are many laws that state how long a trailer or wagon CAN BE, but there is more fluctuation in how long everything can be, when tow vehicle / pull vehicle is connected to the trailer / wagon.

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i have drawn up a good amount of sketches, and played around with autodesk inventor. trying to figure out best way of how to fold things up, how to rotate things. and my lastest version....

"hydraulic rotatory vane actuators", instead of a typical hyd cylinder, you see on various tractors and implements that extend / contract. a rotatory vane actuator, causes limited amount of rotation, from any were near 330 degrees, to 160 degrees, down to i want to say 60 degrees. and behaves much like a regular hydraulic cylinder extends / contracts, but instead rotates. the less max degrees that are needed, the more pistons per say (vanes) can be placed into it, to allow for more torque to happen in a smaller size. if the rotatory vane actuator does what i want it to do, it removes a lot of extra "parts" and bars and linkages. that reduces overall "height" height is a big one, for the main frame and connect to wheels. less height = not as long of linkage bars needed to connect to implements, allowing implements to almost set right next to wheels, when implement is loaded. and less longer linkages, means i can fit more implement on top of the SSTT when in "transport mode".

another issue has been needing to get power down to the wheels. were a wheel hub motor (motor that replaces the rim of a tire). the tires, will need to be able to turn little over 360 degrees maybe near 400 degrees. so when SSTT turns from transport mode to field mode or vice vs, i can keep the "tread pattern" going in correct direction. and at same time allow for SSTT to turn either on the road in transport mode, or in the field. there is a kicker....in field mode, the SSTT does not have to drive straight down the field. if you turn all the wheels say 20 degrees. and have a 60 foot wide implement on the SSTT. the implment now becomes... 56 foot long going through the field. it may only be 4 feet, but if ya dealing with hard compacted soil and loosing traction.... 4 feet may be just enough to get ya through the field.

getting back on track, the rotation of the tires, and getting power down to the tires, has been tricky, and i am not completely decided of what to do. if i go with electrical wheel motors, per tire, i can reduce complexity and cost of dealing with say 3000PSI max pressure of trying to send hyd oil down to each tire. the con of electrical, is needing to deal with "explosion proof" electrical motors and connections. a simple spark, and dealing with all the "dry dust from harvesting time" to dealing with wide range of chemicals. one little spark and BOOM! with that said, if i do electrical wheel motors, i have to rely on water cooling, and needing to get antifreeze / water mixture down to the wheels. i really can not rely on a fan or air cooling, due to tires are going to be deep in the mud, and mud caked onto the tires and motors. which would reduce overall ability for heat to dissipate from the motors.

electrical or hydraulic wheel hub motors, debate, is thorn in my side, not sure what i will end up dong. and have placed more emphasis on "traction" and wheel slippage and reducing compaction of the soil. and in that wanting as high possible response time, from some computer chip, to take sensor inputs of RPM's and torque, and allow for smallest degree in change of RPM's and torque possible. so when a tire hits dirt clod, or rut, that individual tire either speeds up or slows down, as it goes over the bump or into the rut and out of the rut. the goal is, to turn the tire, so it "rolls over" the obstacle, vs ram rodding, and doing a hip hop, skip and a jump over the obstacle. if ya ever been on a dirt bike, or 4 wheeler and hitting a rut or bump, you either have been or nearly tossed off the bike or 4 wheeler. well, i want to reduce that effect within the field. to both gain traction and reduce compaction.

another issue has been low MPH from say creeper gear, and moving a few feet per minute, to 2 to 10 MPH, and then needing a some road gears for higher MPH in transport mode. at moment i am still setting my sights up to 55MPH. it may not be possible, but that is were i have set my sights for now. but with that said, trying to place some sort of limited amount of transmission per wheel, has been challenging, and also complexes things to point of higher chance of failure. and in that i have went on looking for more of a "direct drive, no gearing" setup. and have went through a good amount of general scribbles (2 year old chicken scratch ideas) and i am more inclined to go with electrical wheel hub motors. vs hydraulic wheel hub motors for the tires. hydrualic oil, can get air within the oil (causing reduced capacity of hyd oil), and it can take longer (how much i do not know) between a sensor reading and physically opening / closing a valve, to cause more/less RPM and torque. vs going with an electrical motor.

the issue with electrical motor besides needing to be "explosion proof" (completely self contained motor (no air vents or like), and needing water cooling). has been, the "cogging" or rather how an electrical motor actually turns, and how torque is developed. and the vibration an electrical motor could possibly cause. at more looking at multi phase setup. not simply 3 phases but more phases. to try and reduce cogging / vibration, but also allow for extremely slow speeds (a few feet per minute) to high RPMs that allow for 55 MPH. and enough torque to allow for it all.

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the main frame of the SSTT. has been problematic, and has seen more changes than anything. at 60 feet wide, and dealing with hills there needs to be some "flex" within the frame, or joints, that allow the frame to bend, so as to allow for everything to roll through the field better. and also allow form the implements more so, to stay on the ground and follow the ground even better.

i have not completely made up my mind yet, of splitting the 60 foot into THREE 20 foot sections, or going with FOUR 15 foot sections. and say up to 15 degrees +/- of freedom of up and down, between each section.

there is also another problem. and that is, making sure implements, from bottom plows, discs, planters, air seeders, to other, what ever is in physical contact with the ground, as the sections of the SSTT bend to deal with hills and slopes, making sure the implements do not end up leaving a gap between the sections. kinda like a finishing mower deck, that has 3 blades, and normally the center blade over laps the 2 outside blades. but in this case, i am trying to remove the need for the overlap. so besides the rotation of the 15 +\- degrees. i will also need to add in some sort a hydraulic cylinder. that extends / contracts, a few inches, to pull or push individual sections apart from each other. to make sure that the implements will stay side by side, and keep nice even spacing of say 10 inches or 14 inches, or 15 inches, or 30 inches.

BUT then it gets more complicated.... as soon as the SSTT goes into transport mode and gets on the road. i need to be able to lock the sections together. so if say i apply the front brakes, all the sections behind, do not try and "jack knife" like a semi truck and trailer, were the semi slams on the brakes and begins to turn, and the trailer just keeps on going....

the same issue goes with needing to "lock" the hydraulic rotatory vane actuators that control wheel eight and rotation of the tire (not the wheel hub motor) for the rotatory vane actuators, i am more looking at installing "wet disc brakes / clutch" so as to allow for a way to physically lock things into place. and either use electricity or compressed air. to deal with these wet brakes.

(gets even more complicated), say you have complete power loss going down the road, i need to make sure, the front set of tires, when in transport mode. you can still be able to steer left/right and apply brakes. so you do not end up crashing but able to pull off side of road and come to a stop, ((this is were the cab comes into play)) remember i want to split the cab from the main body / frame of the SSTT. but when in transport mode, the cab is attached to the 8 foot width end. and in that it basically turns the SSTT main frame/body into a trailer and cab as a tow vehicle. but i should be saying, it turns everything more into a "school bus" were the cab has 4 points of contact with the SSTT main frame / body. and there is no degrees of rotation between cab and the SSTT. what i have now, might more resemble, those "mobile cranes" going down the road. that has individual tire rotation control from the cab up front. and able to make even sharper turns, by adjusting how each individual tire turns.

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counter weight... going back to grade school to learn about fulcrums, and the old "teeter totter" this has played a roll in overall design of the SSTT.

current age tractors. have this large bulky tractor out in front, that weighs most likely more than what ever it is pulling.... but for the SSTT, the main frame, and tires and then implements are going to be right next to each other when out in the field. some implements rely on weight to bust the ground up and keep the implement in the ground, while others try to reduce weight, by using implement tires. many times using the implement tires like gauge wheels, to control depth of how far implement goes down into the ground....

well.... there is con's and pro's. lets take a "disc" how many times have you looked back and see "shiny streaks" within the dirt. were the cutting of the disc has dragged across the dirt. for myself, i have noticed if i stop the tractor and go back, and use my hands to remove the "fluffy" dirt on top, that the marks left by the disc, tend to be "hard" and compacted, while ares between the discs, tends to be less compacted.

what i am looking at is trying to off set the weight of various implements. to the SSTT main frame and wheels on it. so that any compaction that does happen, goes through the tires on the SSTT main frame / body. and not happening at the implement. in another way of stating it, i want to put weight were it could be used for traction. and get compaction done out in front of "tillage" like equipment. so the tillage will remove the compaction. and not re-apply compaction as the tillage equipment is doing its thing.

rotatory vane actuators for individual tires, play a roll in this "counter weight balance" by changing how far front tires may stick out in front, to how high SSTT main frame is stays up off the ground. to adding the "boxing counter weight" boxing as in the type of sport of busting someones head open. again i am limited by 8 feet wide, 60 feet long, 14 feet high. for dealing with roads and bridges and getting under electric pole wires. the "boxing counter weight" would be a couple arms with hyd cylinders. (like your shoulder down to your wrist, and hyd cylinders being the muscle) and instead of hands/gloves, it would be counter weight, say steel, to concrete. and the "boxing counter weight" would unfold out in front of the SSTT. the further they unfold out in front, the more "counter weight i can get" (going back to fulcrums / levers or rather a kids teeter totter) again goal is reduce compaction, if i can reduce overall weight needed to counter balance an implement by sticking less weight needed further out in front. the happier i will be. and if i can control on demand, amount of counter weight needed, as the soil changes through out a field or fields. the more happier i will be.

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tires and diameter of them.. and width of them...

still limited by 8 foot width, 60 foot long, 14 feet high. i can only make tire diameter of them so big. along with width of the tires....

examples.... dealing with row/crop and needing to get in field, and keep tires off your crop. as you spray or what ever you are doing.

examples.... needing to be able to rotate the tires 360 degrees, so tread stays in correct direction for max traction in the field and on the road. i been having a hard time stating "front and rear" for the SSTT. due to there really is no front or rear. from transport mode to field mode. it can drive in multi directions.

with above said, i have went with a "caster wheel" design style. were the supporting frame work, almost snugs the sides of the tire. so that a tire can go past its axle / center point. and not get hung up as much. this allows me to use say a 24" inch diameter tire, and maybe get 16" deep mud. and still keep on going vs getting hung up on drive shafts and axles when tire only gets in a 8" deep mud.

SSTT has another thing going for it vs regular current age tractors. and that is tires are not located right behind each other in a small space apart from each other. but rather spread out across 60 feet. so as long as you do not take a mud hole dead on, you should still be able to keep going by keeping a couple wheels up on higher ground and out of the mud hole. and if you truly get stuck, you could always "walk" the SSTT out, using the linkages going to the tires like legs of a spider, and lift / lower tires and hopefully get unstuck.

i am still hopeful to say switch between 12" width tire to say up to 24" tire, to running TWO 12" tires (duals like rear of a pickup truck or semi truck). and possibly going with "tracks" that are approx 24" long 12 to 30 inch wide. but it will not be a "rim and tire swap with perhaps spacers" but most likely an entire swap out from tire all the way up to connection to the main frame. it more has to do with physically size and length of everything, to make sure it all "works" and having space for everything. sadly it would drive up cost. but there is not much way of getting around it. i never did say you could not simply add more tires. and take up space along the 60 foot length of the SSTT. but there will be a limitation between connection points for tires and there linkages, and then linkages for implements and being able to fold / unfold implements.

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implements

i have attempted to turn the SSTT into a combine, but frankly my knowledge and experience is zero. and complexity of say a header for a combine to thresher in the combine is above me, and more than i am wanting to get into at this time. but i am more tempted to turn the SSTT into a "wagon". the SSTT would be taking the place of the larger tractor in the fleet of equipment a farmer uses. and during harvesting, that larger tractor tends to be the chase tractor with a wagon behind it. i am more tempted to turn SSTT in a wagon, due to it would already be setup with wheels and control to reduce overall ground pressure being placed on the soil. and for the most part when SSTT is stripped down to the very basic doings, it would be a frame work for a trailer. all you would need to do is add a bottom and 4 sides, and it would be a 8 foot wide, 60 foot long wagon, say 8 to 10 feet high. (semi box trailer other words). hydraulics and electrical would already be there, to add conveyer belts, or augers.

for hay cutting, to windrowing hay. the cutter head would hook up just like a plow or disc or planter would. but SSTT would be drive in opposite direction. so cutting happens, vs driving the wheels over the hay and smashing stuff into the ground.

air seeders, this has been a big one, my recent mind change for not trying to turn SSTT into a harvester. has set me back some in how and were to mount bulk containers for seed / fertilizer. and it may come down using a regular wagon like container. and hooking it up to 1 of the 3 to 5 spots along the 60 foot length. were cab would hook up when SSTT is in field mode. and it would most likely mean adding expense to make the tires on the wagon have motors in them. so the wagon is not pushed, but helps kinda pull the SSTT through the field.

box planters, were seed is in a container directly above the working end that drops / puts the seed in the ground, should not be a big problem and connect like a disc or plow would to the SSTT.

bottom plows, i have taken a dramatic change in how bottom plows are setup. it comes down to try and fold a bottom plow up on the SSTT and keep it all within the 8 foot by 60 foot area. i am holding off for now from saying to much about bottom plows...

discs and setting them at a different angle. has taken a change, again limited by 8 x 60 and needing to fold the disc up on top of the SSTT for transport.

chisels to rippers and crumblers, there is not much difference to them.

it should be possible to turn the SSTT into a self propelled sprayer. but dealing with "corn" more so after the corn has grown a couple feet high there maybe a problem. to simple clearance under the SSTT. the same goes for potatoes and dealing with "hills" that the potatoes are grown in. after hills and tops of the potato plant gets so high. there may be some clearance issues. i might be able to add some sort of spacers some place. but really have not given it much thought yet. the higher everything sets, the less room i end up having for implements to fold up on the SSTT. due to everything ends up needing to be longer to connect SSTT to the implements.

might be possible to turn SSTT into a liquid manure spreader, just toss a tank, on top and connect some sort of rippers / chisels with injectors on one of the 8 foot width ends. and get a going.

should be able to put a box and chain and paddles, to turn SSTT into a solids handling manure spreader

bed shappers / hillers should be good to go.

==============
again goal of SSTT is to reduce compaction, and dramatically change how current age tractor implement setups are done. a good portion of all of it, is treating the SSTT like a "trailer frame" and using say a fork lift for boxes to turn SSTT in a wagon, to using hitch connections with linkage arms. that fold/unfold implements from on top of the SSTT to down on the ground.

there is going to more emphasis placed on "prep work", there will be no backup and connect. but a little more involved in hydrualic hose and electrical connections. and perhaps pins,pending on what your next task would be. with that said, more prep work, but hopefully higher efficiency when actually doing the work.

example possibly being able to drive the "cab" to town, fill up on diesel. and go back to the farm. and bulk transfer diesel to the SSTT larger bigger tank. or possibly being able to control two or more 60 foot SSTT units with a single cab, in the same field. keep in line with only a few minutes between driving into a field and working the field to getting done with field and ready to go down the road to next field. to getting to the point of having the SSTT be "drones" and everything is done via computer. and at most, a "dead man box cab" is placed on SSTT. just enough room for someone to set, and have ability to push an emergency stop button in case something happens.

=================
i am looking for higher level of soil sampling, (on the fly soil sampling) every so many feet or inches (pending on soil sample), and being able to use different types of fertilizers to pesticides to seeds during tillage / planting based on, on the fly soil samples, part of air seeder wagon, and placing the air seeder wagon out in front, and the planter portion behind the SSTT, i am hoping that soil samples can be taken quickly enough so when the planter arrives, over that spot. direct automated fertilizer type / seed can be done.

to "controled" re-shaping of the field, to help remove high spots, and fill in low spots, and then maintenance upkeep of a field. that is done over years. so when ya disc or bottom plow to chisels, when the soil is worked, perhaps a little more dirt here or there or deeper here vs there. is done. so instead of breaking out the dozer, everything happens over so many years. so overall erosion can be controlled, and soil characteristics can be maintained.

also looking into "transplanting" were a seed is grown at some nursery / hydroponics setup. and being able to "transplant" millions to billions of 1" to 5" tall plants into fields. the low profile of the SSTT once implement is un folded, and being able to easily hook up some sort of wagon out in front. (as long as wagon has wheels on it that have a wheel hub motor on them) make this idea more feasible.

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legal mumb jumo..*ughs* been told i should put something on this, and for most part. treating this like how "free to use programming code / open source code" is done, with statement of, free to use, but not able to reproduce for $$$. other words anyone able to use idea, but your not allowed to make money off of the idea, without written permission by me.

example someone building there own machine / implements but not able to sale the machine or implements or specific parts to anyone else, that are based on this idea.

to above, eventually sooner or later i would like to bring something to market / get funding to build protype to other, but at same time keep things out there in the open, from failures of trail and errors to final product. "why try to re-invent the wheel" move on and move past that.


Ryan
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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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some scribbles in autodesk inventor i did up.

sadly there is really no "open source" listing out there for basic implements out there. so everything is drawn from scratch. at this point in time, everything is game to be redid to something else. so i have no placed huge amount of work on getting down to the niddy griddy details. and just trying to get basic idea down.

attached picture....

the main frame of the SSTT this is FOUR 15 foot section version, that i have been considering over THREE 20 foot section setup.

disc, that can adjusted to any "angle" wanted. i kinda butchered the disc pretty good, so i could approximately space the discs, to line up with edges of individual bottom plow beside it. i tried other ways to "angle" the discs. but every time i did, i ended up not finding enough room to fold things up.

bottom plow, from the first post i noted, i simply was not real eager to follow current age bottom plows, to turn over plows. i need something to fold up better. i needed to make 2 sets of bottom plows, so you could do a 180 at end of field, and switch over to the other set / row to keep all the furrows going in same direction. not my best work for "trip plow" so if a bottom plow snagged a rock or root or something else, the plow would flip back, but at this point was more focused to see if a bottom plow like this setup could possibly work.

i tried to make a FEL (front end loader) heavy duty bucket. to try and describe the bottom plows, and how they work, but how i was going to explain things has done left the building.

i tried making some sort of "hay rake" along with some sort of multi blade bush hog, to deal with hay, to try and see how things might line up. and overlap one another to perhaps save on cost and keep things more simpler.

decided to toss a few boxes on SSTT, just to see what it might look like. and figure out how much space i had.

hopefully as more things get figured out, better detail will be done to move things more closer to a finalized rough draft of things.

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File Type: png boggen elec sstt23.png (946.5 KB, 337 views)

Ryan
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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 10:35 AM
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Hi, Good to see someone trying to think outside the box with tractor design. I am not sure a new tractor can be all things to all applications.
I think perhaps a corn/bean unit with one power unit per 20 ft which seeds sprays and harvests with identical units controled by gps will be more like the future. These units would run like your snake but cover overlaps as not physically linked and could even run in tandem ie front unit could be the threshing unit of combine and rear unit the grain tank
Cost of this change cannot be too great as making every combine and tractor redundant over night would not be a good idea.
With my idea one new unit could be used with existing kit and more units added over time as tractors combines needed replacing.
No good having a great idea no one can afford.

Last edited by homefarmtobydog; 02-16-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 12:48 PM
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Just another idea you might like to consider. The 20 ft units would have twistlocks like the sea containers and individual seeders sprayers combines would be designed to lock on like a container.
Then containers themselves could be used as the tank behind the combine, the bin in the yard, loaded onto the train and then the ship, train and end user, without ever seeing an auger or elevator.

Is that thinking outside or inside the box?
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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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long story short, your right in line of what i have been thinking. (for both of your posts),

the long rambling version....
this is were i am at.....

it took me a couple months using microsoft paint and using grid like paper to rough sketch things out. most of it was trying how to find room for tires and getting them to turn and fold like i wanted them to. and stay within the 8 foot width, 60 foot wide, 14 feet tall, that i am holding to for world wide road restraints.

going with above, 20 foot single unit sections that had there own engines, just really not possible. it results in current age smaller size tractors. and a 3pt hitch implement that is 20 foot wide when unfolded.

when looking around at engines, the difference between say 100 HP to 400 HP engine, is only a few more inches bigger in physical size. and when you try to use multi smaller engines to equal amount of a single larger engine, the smaller engines are less efficient in fuel, and weigh more vs a single larger engine.

fuel tank size. tractors are not trucks / cars you can easily drive into town and fill up at a gas station, and even "bulk" containers / bulk wagon for moving fuel out to tractors to fill them up, takes a good amount of time. i am more looking at any were from 100 gallon to 400 gallon tank maybe larger (depends) have not figured out actual approx size yet. i really do not want to pay someone to be the full service fuel pump service guy. waiting for machines to come around to be filled up with fuel. and having to wait a couple minutes to 30 plus minutes for a unit to come around field edge so it can be filled up.

i am more looking at, being able to "swap out an engine" from say 200 HP engine to a 460HP engine to a 800 HP engine. on the main SSTT unit. seriously.... most engines now a days, you can put all the wires into a single wire harness for sensors to control of RPMs of engine. then you have battery cables (easy enough with quick connects), antifreeze / water coolant hoses (easy enough with quick connects), axle/shaft that connects to generator head or hyd pump. (easy enough, with say a PTO shaft like setup for quick connect)

seriously if i could narrow engine size down to say 3 different sized HP engines. and left everything to a computer chip, to control RPMs of engine and torque that is produced and fuel consumed. i would be ahead i would like to think. no need to pay for another set of multi tires, frame work, cab, etc... ((no need for another tractor other words)) just swap out an engine for implement/s that needs that given range of HP and go.

i have 60 feet of width to work with. but at same time that 60 feet gets eaten up really quick. when i was messing around with grid paper. more so when i figure 60 x 8 dimensions. and trying to keep engine, fuel tank, radiator, hyd oil coolers, muffler, wheel connections to main frame, places that a cab could connect to 60 foot side or a 8 foot side. adding counter weights, there is not a whole lot of room left, and counting down in 1/2" amounts and not in inches or feet.

again i wish i could do the 20 foot sections, but i honestly do not see it possible. or less i had a bunch of current age droned tractors, that could go completely through a field, and then get on the road and goto next field, without a single person around to do anything. (no need to do refills for fertilizers, seeds, fuel, etc...) but i think we are 20 years from that happening. ya in the next 5 to 10 years things will be happening, but the infrastructure to allow this on a massive scale through out the world *shakes head no* it is going to take time. to get to a completely AI (artificial intelligence) that does all the field work. before we get to that point, i would like to see a change, to get to that point, and part of what i would like to do with the SSTT. is put foot forward in drone tractors. and removing the cab and building a tractor more setup for that effect. i mean really, do you need to spend 20,000 plus bucks on a cab, when you are only going to be in the tractor for a couple hours. only to turn the tractor over to a "drone tractor" that follows another tractor? and for smaller farm setups. still allowing the lead vehicle (farm not large enough for 2 larger tractors) to have a cab or some way to control the tractor nearby, or out in front or behind the SSTT. (depends what side the implement is on, (on the front like a combine / harvester), or on the back like tillage or a planter.)

*rubs chin* gah, sounds like i just built up walls around myself and trapped myself in the box.....as i try to justify compromises made so far.

================
the wagon / shipping container twist locks, ya on right idea, but there are way more scenarios, than just putting crop directly from harvester, and into a shipping container, and going directly to some shipping port. with need for any augers or conveyer belts. there is a huge range of crop types out there. alot of focus is placed on corn / beans and like, but there are a huge amount of other crops. say potatoes, carrots, wheat, way to big of list, to state here. that goes to some nearby local "storage place" make it a grain bin, to a refrigerator building, to a processing plant that cleans and sorts before storing crop to other.

i am wanting to make sure the SSTT, when turned into a wagon during harvesting, has ability to fold out an auger, or conveyer belt. or is able to fold down one side, so crop can more easily placed down in the bottom vs dropping it 10 feet plus high only to have it smash in the bottom. or perhaps allow wagon, to turn into a dump truck like setup, were it either tilts to one of the 60 foot length sides, or to one of the 8 foot long ends. or perhaps has an auto bail pickup, for say square bales or round bails.

i want to make sure i can reduce length of auger / conveyer belt come from harvester, and can allow the entire crop to fill entire wagon. and not have to shake it and beat it to death in order to fill the entire container. either by placing an auger or conveyer belt directly on the wagon that the SSTT has turned into. or by being able to move the SSTT along side the harvester, or turning the SSTT so it follows the harvester "side ways".

===========
at moment i am kinda in the ugly stage, of having to re-invent, and draw everything up from scratch. to make sure it could work with least amount of compromises, for the best efficiency. and keeping things to point of universal connection points. that can be counted on as being the same, for multi types of implements and setups. 3pt hitch has been around for years, and trying to get away from 3pt hitch is huge speed bump. due to so many implements and setups have been setup around a 3pt hitch, and a tractor pulling the implement / wagon. but as tractors get bigger, and implements get wider. folks are already experience "on the road" transport problems, of locking down a road for a few miles at a time, just to get from field to field and to/from farm. i am not sure how much longer 3pt hitch setups are going to be around for larger size tractors and implements. and being able to count on universal connection points. to deal with bulk material, like seed, fertilizers, pesticides, crop during harvesting.

Ryan

Last edited by boggen; 02-16-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 03:30 PM
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Refreshing. Very refreshing to see someone dreaming and thinking about what can be or maybe even might be someday. Never stop.

If you have high speed internet, spend some hours on youtube, and in particular, in the UK and western Europe. They have had to come up with some really creative concepts to deal with imposed regulations.

There are also potato, nut and berry equipment than might give you some new insight on whats been done and what you might adapt to what you would like to see.

Powering the implement does have some history believe it or not. Not much film on it, but patents were granted over the decades on many types. Some were quite viable, just too far ahead of their time.


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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 08:14 PM
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Here is a video of a dowler gantry way before its time and never taken up by a major manufacturer
or put dowler gantry in u tube.

Something like this up dated to container system and one cabed unit with multiple drones

Cost per unit would be very little as numbers made would be massive and all the same.

Not like todays tractors with three or four ranges with 4,5,6 models in each rangeand multipe options.
JD cab factory in Germany could 200 cabs a day but it would take 8 yrs to build every option they could, ie 8 years before it had to build two cabs the same. A statistic I found incredible but cannot be cheap.

My understanding is that volume is how costs are cut with manufacturing.
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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 05:52 AM
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Here is more about the man himself
http://www.controlledtrafficfarming....%20history.pdf
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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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if i seem like a butt, plz ignore that, not my attention. just been at this for a few months, and your notations are encouraging homefarmtobybog. ya right there at fully comprehending it all.

===============
well i open up this thread, and been slowly typing at it, when to post, and got an error, then saw your PDF. now i am retyping everything up.

that PDF really made the gantry really work for me. and how it operated.
he, put put a lot of good concepts together. and i would imagine it worked out extremely nice. but i am hard time bitting.

traction. and multi implements all being pulled through the field at same time. wheels that set outside of the physical work area of the implement. making sure tread pattern goes in correct direction. some implements require wheels to be first and implement behind, other implements require implement to be out front, and wheels behind it.

================
lets see if i can do a difference.....

i am looking at THREE 20 foot sections or FOUR 15 foot sections. kinda like the dowler gantry. BUT, i am not looking at hanging implements through mid section. i want the implement to fold off the top of the SSTT. yes this adds weight and complexity, but it keeps the wheels either in front of or behind the implement.

---example... hay cutting, ya cut and windrow the hay, so windrow goes between wheels. so you are not driving over the hay before cutting and smashing it down into the ground.
----example... tillage / planting equipment (plow, disc, chiseals, planters, air seeders, etc...) compaction happens first, but the tillage equipment running right after the tires, removes the compaction. wheels are able to be off set, to go between rows, so when planter comes by, you are not trying to plant directly were a tire just compacted the dirt.
---example traction and mud, more surface area between all wheels touching the ground. so entire weight gets spread out. and more to the point. the wheels are spaced further apart. than current age tractors. that are causing more deeper compaction. goes to how weight is spread out within the ground. weight just does not get transferred straight down, but spreads out in a triangle shape. ya adding tracks to multi extra wheels helps reduce compaction right at the surface. BUT, there is a major issue once you get past that initial couple inches. all that weight is still being "focused" into a small area. that would most likely resemble a hard "train tracks" in the deeper soil. if i can spread the weight out, not by simply adding tracks or more tires side by side, but physically spread the tires out over a longer distance between them. i can turn what might be solid iron train tracks deeper in the soil. to soft lumber (hard wood trees, soft wood trees) ya you might think i am splitting hairs. but really. i do not want my roots of plants at the surface, i want to make sure the deeper soil. is also fluffed up and not compacted.
---other words the so called "HARD PAN" creation, ya folks are creating a hard pan for sure. with current age tractors. lets reduce that hard pan. by spreading those wheels out away from each other. and in that that is what i am looking at, for the SSTT. in spreading the weight out. so as the force goes down through the ground. that force is spread out into a much wider area. vs making solid iron train tracks directly below current age tractors.

=========
the dowler gantry is a tad "top heavy" is what it looks like to me. i may be wrong. i am hoping by putting in the "wheel hub motors" directly into the tire rim errr replacing the tire rim completely. i bring a good amount of weight down extremely low. and lower the center of gravity. the lower i can get COG (center of gravity) the better off i will be when it comes to fulcrums / levers (tetter totters). and in that i will not be pulling implements UP and across the field. but pulling implements more directly across the field. (parallel to the field)

==========
a cab frankly takes up a huge amount of space. for all the controls. and for a driver to seat. ya talking any were from 4 to 6 feet wide, 4 to 8 feet long, 4 to 8 feet high. that is a huge area.

trying to work around a cab, in folding up an implement for transport, and then unfolding for field use. makes things extremely awkward, and requires extra folding of implements and like. or the cab sticks out to one end, were it might hit a fence row, or push crops over during harvesting or spraying.

removing the cab completely from the implement and main frame, and treating the cab much like a semi truck, and the SSTT unit like trailer for a semi truck. it sets a platform. that is consistent, all the way across it. and nothing in the way, to work around.

==========

by keeping the larger main engine 200HP, 500HP, 1000HP, directly on the SSTT. i stay away from current age tractors. if i can swap the engines out, and by that i just mean the engine itself, with starter motor, muffler. and everything else radiators, generator, alternator, hyd pump, air pump, water pump, hyd oil coolers, batteries, etc... on the SSTT. i can maintain my fuel economy, over a wider range of doings, without having to buy another set of tires, frames, wiring harnesses, lights, cabs, etc... just for another engine that is either smaller or larger. i am setting a specific width, of 60 feet, that can be counted on. there is no 10 footers, 20 footers, 30 footers, 50 footers and everything in between. but right at 60 foot.

=========
60 foot has logistic problems...

through out the world. road widths and turns at stop lights to stop signs. are kept pretty much same width. if a semi can not get through, then there are problems. it comes down to physical length. and trying to make a turn.

there are mobile cranes, (long cranes) that have full independent all wheel drive, and independent all wheel turning. that allows for these longer cranes to make sharper turns. BUT there is no way i am about to ask a farmer to have multi chase vehicles (one or 2 out front, 1 or 2 behind) to get down road, and get in and out of a field.

if i stay with 60 foot, i stay within limits of semi truck trailers. and i am able to predict that roads for most part will allow for the SSTT to get down the road and make turns.

BUT, i can not really allow, for TWO 60 foot SSTTs to be pulled one behind the other one down the road. there is road saftey, to consider, part of it is all the curves and hills found in out in the back country (away from interstate highways and cities) that does not really allow for a person wanting to pass to have a clear view. if an ambulance, fire truck, police show up behind the 2 SSTT that do not have any space between them. and caught up in a bad road with curves and hills. good chance driver of SSTT will never see the emergency vehilce. and good chance emergency vehicle will end up getting in a head on collision. trying to pass. not to mention the BLOODY FREAKING IDIOT DRIVERS!! that try to pass regardless... sorry about that outburst.
Getting back on track. Logistic problems…
Yes I am looking for multi SSTT being controlled by a single cab (or rather I should say mobile command center). But this only happens within the field. Once it comes time from moving field to field. Each SSTT is going to need to be moved most likely individually from field to field. To stay within laws / regulations. This most likely gong to result in one person staying at field controlling multi SSTT units, and then another person moving SSTTs back and forth between fields. And bring fuel, fertilizers, pesticides, seeds, or hauling crop from field to were ever during harvesting. Ya I am sure some exceptions will come up, and for some farmers, just paying for a permit or some such, will allow for multi SSTT units to follow each other down the road. But I can not count on that.

Single 20 foot sections with there own engine, vs a 60 foot unit. If I go with a 60 foot unit. And split it up into Four 15 feet sections or Three 20 foot sections, I can then deck out just 2 8 foot ends with turn singles, brake lights, tail lights, slow motion sign. And I would not have duplicate this on multi smaller units. And if law requires it, putting on some running lights possibly. Yes I am looking for SSTT to be driven on the road during night time. So if a ugly season comes up, of nasty weather, and shortening that tillage / planting / harvesting window from a couple weeks in best of years, to only a couple days. It can happen. Ya multi shifts 12 hour shift to 8 hour shifts might happen. But you do what ya gotta do.

========
going to try to mold your statement some of....

Quote:
Something like this up dated to container system and one cabed unit with multiple drones
container system and implement system. There is 2 invidual connection points here. Well take that 3 connection setups….
1st type of connection
----a single 60 foot edge, and both 8 foot ends. allows a cab to be hooked up. and possibly a air seed wagon, or fertlizer wagon, or like wagon / bulk container.



2nd type of connection
----implement connection, that allows a bottom plow, disc, planter, air seeder planter portion, rippers, how mower, windrower, tiller, etc... to fold/unfold off top of the SSTTT and be placed down on the ground.


3rd type of connection
---turning SSTT into a wagon, or rather in your words, twist locks, like a cargo container.



================
================
================
re touching on wheels and spacing them out and the iron track within the ground, just below the surface....if ya ever dealt with retaining walls, to setting up a pool or koi pond. you would most likely had to deal with how force is applied through out the ground. weight just does not go straight down through the ground, but the weight spreads out. different soil types cause weight to spread out wider vs other soil types that concentrate weight more straight down. ya everyone sees a rut and *looks shocked* but it is not the surface i am worried about, well except seed bed during planting. but rather, everything else beyond planting. and creating that hard pan.... errr iron compacted train tracks deeper into the ground.


=================
ok i am spinning my wheels now. i got a tad lost between what i tried to write up before, and what i have re=typed up.

Ryan
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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 01:23 PM
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Compaction is my biggest worry with tractors and combines getting bigger and heavier.

I wish something like the Dowler idea had taken off 20/30 years ago and todays monster machines would never have been needed, and the lightweight module concept you are planning would have evolved.

I am not sure it can today.

In fact it would appear the opposite is true. The new driverless tractor is a 300hp lump, the artic combine with an enormous grain tank must be unbelievably heavy and no more spra-coupes.

The original spra-coupes low weight with high speed was the correct way to go to fight compaction not slow and heavy but again it seems it did not sell.

The future may be totally different.

Solar powered robots may be only as big as a humming bird programed to plant weed and harvest their own little patch. Would we still be farmers then?


Last edited by homefarmtobydog; 02-17-2013 at 01:26 PM.
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