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Running a 2014 versatile 450. What are your thoughts on minimum engine rpm a guy can run before you should drop a gear and idle up. Currently shooting for 5 mph. Can either do it at 1720 rpm or 1920 rpm. Looks to be using about 10 litres more fuel per hour at the higher rpm.
 

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It will pull better at 1920 then 1720. (I don’t care what Nebraska test says. This is real world in field test) the test doesn’t show the gear he wants to run at the mph he wants.

But if it isn’t lugged down I’d run 1720.

As long as the engine can keep that rpm and you can increase it without much trouble it won’t hurt the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Lots of power at 1720 rpm so sounds like engine will be fine. I guess my only other concern is lube pressure in the transmission. Thought I read on here that the 2 track challengers with transmission problems were possibly related to running too low of engine rpm. I’ve got the ta-19 cat powershift transmission in this one
 

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It will pull better at 1920 then 1720.
Since only 2100 and 1800 were the test rpms hard to say, but you are wrong anyway.
It will NOT pull better at 1920 than 1720, less pull but more rpm cushion at 1920 which is what I think you are confusing.

Wished they still did lugging ability runs but that’s not a European thing so it died, except on request the odd one is tested.
 

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Since only 2100 and 1800 were the test rpms hard to say, but you are wrong anyway.
It will NOT pull better at 1920 than 1720, less pull but more rpm cushion at 1920 which is what I think you are confusing.

Wished they still did lugging ability runs but that’s not a European thing so it died, except on request the odd one is tested.
Have you drove one?

A stock 450 will fall flat on its face under 1700rpm. But it will hold 1900 real easy. If you have your cruise set at 1720 and you pull a hill it will not hold there at all then the transmission will kick you into neutral. It's not just the engine it's how versatile has the transmission calibrated and derated set. At 1900 it will drop to 1850ish and hold there. So I stand by my real world claim of the versatile 450 will pull better at 1920 then 1720.
I have also seen the dyno charts of the 450 and if I wanted max power it would run just over 1850rpm.

The 15L in the versatile sucks for lugging ability compared to the 15L the CNH used in there big 4WD tractors for whatever reason.
 

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Don’t quote me but I think all Nebraska tests are conducted at wide open throttle, the lower RPM data is derived by lugging the engine down to 1800 RPM to provide a sense of how much grunt the engine has.

I’m sure it isn’t always the case, but many electronic throttle programs don’t allow full engine torque output when actually set at partial throttle positions.
.
 

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Have you drove one?

A stock 450 will fall flat on its face under 1700rpm. But it will hold 1900 real easy. If you have your cruise set at 1720 and you pull a hill it will not hold there at all then the transmission will kick you into neutral. It's not just the engine it's how versatile has the transmission calibrated and derated set. At 1900 it will drop to 1850ish and hold there. So I stand by my real world claim of the versatile 450 will pull better at 1920 then 1720.
I have also seen the dyno charts of the 450 and if I wanted max power it would run just over 1850rpm.

The 15L in the versatile sucks for lugging ability compared to the 15L the CNH used in there big 4WD tractors for whatever reason.
My 550 delta is exactly the same. The 535 quadtrac you can idle right down to 12 or 1300 on the harrows to turn and rev it back up. If you did that in the delta trac you would be eating the steering wheel. Rev it up over 1800 and it probably pulls better than the case.
 

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Running it at 1700rpm will be fine but it won’t be as forgiving if you get into a position where it does start to lug for obvious reasons.
As for the lugging power vs old Case 15L Cummins engines it’s probably more to do do emission systems preventing the engine from making soot from unburnt fuel by lugging than anything else.
When you lug a old tier 2 motor down that black smoke would fail any emissions test.
 

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Running it at 1700rpm will be fine but it won’t be as forgiving if you get into a position where it does start to lug for obvious reasons.
As for the lugging power vs old Case 15L Cummins engines it’s probably more to do do emission systems preventing the engine from making soot from unburnt fuel by lugging than anything else.
When you lug a old tier 2 motor down that black smoke would fail any emissions test.
Our TJ500 doesn’t smoke hardly at all lugging. Only when you take off full of seed and juice at a low rpm. But a T9 will roll coal just as much or more. ;)
 

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I think the main thing people are forgetting to compare here is the gearing change. 1700 rpm will pull the same as 1950 in the same gear, but not when it's up a gear to run at the same ground speed.
 

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We pull a 60' 5710 with 7" space which is over 100 openers in the ground fairly deep in peas/lentils and a 430 bu tank behind that with 2015 versatile 450. I run it at 1610 and seems very smooth and responsive. When my son shifts me off, he "screams" it at 1710. I always hear the old "gear up and throttle down" theory but more than that for some reason those 2 RPM settings seem to be the engines smooth spot. Even sitting in neutral the engine smooths out at only certain RPMs. Hope we are not doing damage but it sure seems to work well at these RPMs. Our old naturally aspirated 800 versatile we used to run at 1500 on the 30' bourgault.
 

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I was told you need to run these tractors over 1800rpm to get enough lube for the trannys. I have a 500 vers and i think its the biggest pos i have ever had. No lugging power, noisy,and gross on fuel, the old n14 cummins is 100x the motor. There is a reason why the trucking industry is running from the. Also the cummins dealer/ company are a bunch of a.. holes.
 

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I was told you need to run these tractors over 1800rpm to get enough lube for the trannys. I have a 500 vers and i think its the biggest pos i have ever had. No lugging power, noisy,and gross on fuel, the old n14 cummins is 100x the motor. There is a reason why the trucking industry is running from the. Also the cummins dealer/ company are a bunch of a.. holes.
There are some other threads on CF about not running the TA22 below 1800 due to reduced Trans pressure and therefore flow. There are so many different design limit features built into tractors now it is hard to know if you are getting "full rack". But assuming you are from power % meter and the fact it pulls the load, there still is the fact that as rpm goes down torque load goes up to do the same amount of work. For example on my MT965B if at full peak power of 565 hp at 1650 rpm would be 1800 ft lbs of torque on the crank and internal transmission components. That is from the torque formula of hp x 5252 divided by rpm. If you drop one gear and increase rpm to 1800 the torque drops to 1650 ft lbs. Drop two gears and run 1950 rpm and torque drops to just over 1500 ft lbs. These are at 100% load and not typical for all day numbers so that is where you need to decide how much torque do you want your components running at for what % of the time. My 59' 5710 drill with 450 tank and 3000 gal nh3 pulled at 60 - 80% so I ran at 1650 in 9th gear which is at 80% load occasionally and calculates to 1439 ft lbs. Seems in range and the engine loved that speed. On a hilly 1/4 I dropped one gear and run 1800 rpm. Easier on everything.
 

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We have a challenger with the same PS as a versy and we pull 60 ft, 400 bu cart plus nh3 at 1400

I run 15L cumaparts in my trucks at 1200 all day long, gobs more power under 1500 rpm than there is above
 
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