The Combine Forum banner

1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
475 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
ANyone do any side by sides to see if their is a yield gain going from 30" to say 20 or 22"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,742 Posts
I've been doing twin row and its been interesting
The yields seem to be more consistent but in good growing they both yield very similar.
When its dry I believe you can pull up to 20 bu more. So when figuring on buying different equipment and having more repair costs for an average of maybe 8 bu it's a head scratcher.

One thing that is very consistent and seems to be the reason people east of the Missouri river, south of the interstate have went back to 30" is that with narrower rows the crop residue seems to get much heavier in relation to the yield. It just got to be a burden to deal with the extra trash.

I know when the insurance has been out to do yield samples they also check silage weights here and I have had 150bu corn break 30 ton silage where back when I had straight 30" a 150bu crop would have been average around 18-20 ton.

Makes ya scratch your head how the plant material stays so different from yield with narrow rows.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,948 Posts
I've been thinking the same thing. Looks like a different planter next year and wondering about the switch from 30" to 20". Would require a different header and probably a non-chopping one because of the drive on my feeder house not being able to run a chopping head with 18 rows though. Asked some seed reps the other day and they figured if pushing populations(I was at 34K this year) then a potential improvement in the 20". Some neighbors running 20" and apparently having good luck with that. Downside is have to spray across the rows instead of down them, but weed control should be better as a whole. Could then use same planter for soybeans if I ever decide to grow them again...:rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
475 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
It always seems wetter at time we spray corn here so we leave on floaters and been spraying an angle. Probably would continue with same practice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,524 Posts
I've been thinking the same thing. Looks like a different planter next year and wondering about the switch from 30" to 20". Would require a different header and probably a non-chopping one because of the drive on my feeder house not being able to run a chopping head with 18 rows though. Asked some seed reps the other day and they figured if pushing populations(I was at 34K this year) then a potential improvement in the 20". Some neighbors running 20" and apparently having good luck with that. Downside is have to spray across the rows instead of down them, but weed control should be better as a whole. Could then use same planter for soybeans if I ever decide to grow them again...:rolleyes:
New planter already?! Seems like not long ago I was supposed to help put disc openers on that one...0:)

What brand(s) are you looking at?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
338 Posts
Some guys have switched from 30 to 20 inch rows around here and yield wise it doesn't seem to make any difference. Their higher populations and large amounts of trash after they are done harvesting is a turn-off for me. Not worth it for the one out of 10 or 15 year chance all the stars align and 20" row corn actually yields higher.

Most of the guys running 20" have gone to tracked tractors too so they can run 16" tracks. Pizza cutter tires have zero floatation and it always seems to be wet here.

I still think 15/30 split row is the way to go. 30" corn yields just as well as 22" and 20" around here and canola and beans in 15" works just fine. The only major downfall to a split row is when you're doing corn the extra row units being locked up is additional weight.

Go to harvest though and an 8 row or 12 row corn head are the same width with 1/3 more moving parts wearing out and adding weight.

Just my observations, I wouldn't even consider 20" anytime soon unless it was yielding substantially better than 30"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,524 Posts
Some guys have switched from 30 to 20 inch rows around here and yield wise it doesn't seem to make any difference. Their higher populations and large amounts of trash after they are done harvesting is a turn-off for me. Not worth it for the one out of 10 or 15 year chance all the stars align and 20" row corn actually yields higher.

Most of the guys running 20" have gone to tracked tractors too so they can run 16" tracks. Pizza cutter tires have zero floatation and it always seems to be wet here.

I still think 15/30 split row is the way to go. 30" corn yields just as well as 22" and 20" around here and canola and beans in 15" works just fine. The only major downfall to a split row is when you're doing corn the extra row units being locked up is additional weight.

Go to harvest though and an 8 row or 12 row corn head are the same width with 1/3 more moving parts wearing out and adding weight.

Just my observations, I wouldn't even consider 20" anytime soon unless it was yielding substantially better than 30"
This is pretty much what occurs here too. Add in this area low resale value of 20" simply because not many do it and more corn lodging in 20" rows. I've said before in my area corn hybrids are not yet bred to excel in 20" rows.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,948 Posts
This would have been a good year to try a comparison. The corn on 30" has some severe tip-back at 34K but where there is less plants the cobs filled. Hard to imagine that spacing them out and making use of some of that extra real estate in-between the rows wouldn't help.

Hopefully someone who has actually done trials will chime in because this is not easy to do due to the required amount of equipment involved. Comparing to another field/farmer/etc really carries no weight compared to a replicated trial. Also like so many other things going to 20" probably requires a different style of management, including fertilizing for the extra yield potential. I've seen lots of trials where the expected yield gain never showed up, but the guy got the crop he fertilized for.

jcalder what are typical corn populations in your area?

ctpusa I had custom planting done this year in exchange for expected custom drying. It has been pretty evident that the 15" planter they had wasn't going to be utilized much due to another poor performance from soybeans and another strong year from low populations of canola through the air drill. My instinct is to go to a 24 row 30" planter but if the switch is to be made then now might be the time. You are still welcome to come help shim the planter if you want, also can grease the bearings at the top of the legs while you are here.:wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
475 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Part of my reason to switch is that I can plant into corn residue with a planter following corn. Perhaps it be canola, soybeans or sunflowers. Even at 30" corn makes a lot of trash here it seems. Beans can be very slow in corn residue as can about anything so if you can blacken the strip it helps alot. My cousins plant their beans in corn stubble with planter for that reason. That being said I don't want 30" beans but could live with 20" at a lower seed rate than what we put thru the drills on corn ground.



Uof Minnesota has the data set to show the yield increase and talks about how in tough years narrow rows can have better yield also. I can't find data to show the decrease in yield when you get north so that is a plus.



I took a temp gun out when it was 107 this august. Under bean canopy it was still 75 degrees. Corn on 30" rows was mid 90s and bare ground was 111. The more you shade that area the better imho for when it gets dry.



I was worried about cost of header but after looking I can get a standard 12 row 22" for about same money as a 12 row 30".


In my research I'd say 22" rows probably have the best resale of planters. YOu don't find any cheap db44 or 66's but htere are plenty of cheap 1790 and 1770nt out there. The DB bar carries about a 65000 premium on the build your own site at deere for a 60' NT versus 60' DB. In no till and what can be less than ideal conditions the DB will be easier to clean mud out of and service. Neither are great when its muddy but you can at least add tracks to a DB while you cannot on a 1790. The other thing that has swayed me to a db44 is that if its a total flop and i made a mistake I can move the row units around and turn it into a 30" planter unlike on a 1790 given how row units are mounted. FWIW. Not saying I'm right or wrong here just explaining the thought process. Im obviously a charlottan given I was pretty anti corn for a while! Just diversifying :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
475 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Maybe I should change the title and say this is not so much about corn yield but dealing with corn residue and following crop in northern plains. That is ultimately why I am doing this???????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,524 Posts
I'd venture to say that if you are just talking about total field residue from 30" corn to 20" it would be fairly comparable. 35000 plants is still 35000 plants no matter the row spacing. That's my gut instinct.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
for the extra cost of all the equipment and the little yield gain i dont think it makes sense. the extra residue would be a disadvantage for sure and i would imagine would add some yield drag to the following years crop unless you have good tillage equipment and conditions. its already a struggle getting corn residue working in our heavy clay soils on 30".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,948 Posts
I'd venture to say that if you are just talking about total field residue from 30" corn to 20" it would be fairly comparable. 35000 plants is still 35000 plants no matter the row spacing. That's my gut instinct.
Yeah if there was a big difference in residue then why would the yield not be different as well??? Someone is gonna have to explain that one to me.:confused:

Vailcat there is a definite temperature difference to a crop that hits canopy closure, and that would sure seem to have a potential for saving moisture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
475 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Ya I agree. I don't think narrow rows are the silver bullet by any stretch but it makes more all around sense for me I feel.

I have a bare bones planter now and its not like I am trading a 2018 1775 ME5 for another new one. Currently been using a 843 corn head for last 15 years that I paid 4000 for so its not like I am eating depreciation on any of these. The planter I am getting got depreciated by someone else also:)


The UofM data also showed that guys in narrower rows had the same or lower equipment costs than those in wider rows. Obviously everyone is a bit different its not like my planter will cost $15 dollars an acre in 30" rows and $25 in 22" rows.



This seems to be one of those deals where a guy has to guinea pig himself up. There are a couple people I have found around here that are 20" rows and plan on staying that way. FWIW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,524 Posts
Yeah if there was a big difference in residue then why would the yield not be different as well??? Someone is gonna have to explain that one to me.:confused:
The only time residue would come into play would be whats going through the combine in a 8-30" head compared to a 12-20" head. Not sure if there be an increase in plants going through or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,742 Posts
The only time residue would come into play would be whats going through the combine in a 8-30" head compared to a 12-20" head. Not sure if there be an increase in plants going through or not.
Plant numbers wouldn't change there.

There is something about the larger plant spacing that greatly increases plant material, I cant say I understand why the yield dont correlate but it just dont.

It's kinda like when you have a skip in your corn the plants on each side will try to make up for that skip and they never can put on a big enough cob to do it but they usually have a much larger stalk.

Cant really explain it but there is a huge difference.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,948 Posts
I was looking at this planter last winter: https://www.vaderstad.com/ca-en/planting/tempo-planter/
Interesting thing was that row units could be slid along the frame and fastened wherever you wanted, I think the narrowest was 18". Row units were very easy to install/un-install. Would just need a corn head like a Mainero that can do whatever row spacing and boy could you do some trials!

Is 22" the spacing for sugarbeets? Why would resale be better for that size over 20" I wonder? I would have thought 20" would be the more common of the two options when sourcing used equipment, at least in Canada.
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top