The Combine Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,199 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just talked to a neighbor of mine that mentioned his 2388 seems like it doesn't have as much power as it should. The basic description is a 1999 or 2000 2388, pushing a 20' 1020 head in 50-60 bushel soybeans on relatively flat land. It will get up to about 4 MPH in the heat of mid-day, but as soon as you click the unload auger on to unload on the go, it seem like 2.8 MPH is all it wants to do.

To me, that definitely doesn't seem right. We were speculating that maybe the waste gate isn't staying shut tight, or maybe the injectors are getting worn. The machine does have about 2000 hours on it.

Ideas anyone? Thanks in advance.

-Lance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
349 Posts
We had the same problem with our old 2166. We replaced both upper and lower fuel pumps and fuel filters. By this time we were fed up with it and trade it in, but the farmer that bought it ripped the injection pump off and found the pump was all sorts of screwed up. I guess its running like a raped ape now. I would say either a fuel problem or waste gate problems are common.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,199 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok, let me ask you this - is there any difference in symptoms between a waste gate issue and a injector/fuel pump issue?

I know he has changed the fuel filters several times without any increase in performance.

-Lance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
349 Posts
I'm far from a Case tech so i'm going to explain what i've experienced and been told. The waste gate seemed to occur when the motor was under a heavy load. With our 66 w/25ft head unloading on the go in green stems u were down to under 2 mph at times. It just seemed to lose the power when under heavy load. When it comes to the fuel system/injector pump i would imagine the same situation except maybe the symptoms would be worse? If the motor is starving for fuel you'll go know where.

One other thing, also on our old 66 the throttle cable streched out, so when u opened her up in the cab in reality you weren't getting full throttle. When we put a new cable on it made a difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
how is it for smoke? none, excessive? If your suspecting the waste gate i would check the line going to the aneroid( the boost line from the turbo to the top of the injection pump) Easy way to check waste gate trouble is hook up a boost gage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Quote:I'm far from a Case tech so i'm going to explain what i've experienced and been told. The waste gate seemed to occur when the motor was under a heavy load. With our 66 w/25ft head unloading on the go in green stems u were down to under 2 mph at times. It just seemed to lose the power when under heavy load. When it comes to the fuel system/injector pump i would imagine the same situation except maybe the symptoms would be worse? If the motor is starving for fuel you'll go know where.

One other thing, also on our old 66 the throttle cable streched out, so when u opened her up in the cab in reality you weren't getting full throttle. When we put a new cable on it made a difference.


good point, make sure when the in high idle there is spring pressure on the throttle and be sure your rpm is up to spec. I put them all up to 2550rpm. If there is no spring pressure or the rpm is 2400 or below the combine will be a dog
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,199 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If it were a throttle cable, wouldn't the engine RPMs (even without load) be less than normal? I am not sure what RPM it is running at, I'll check that out.

I don't think he's noticed any smoke out of it. Seems to burn pretty clean.

-Lance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
Quote:how is it for smoke? none, excessive? If your suspecting the waste gate i would check the line going to the aneroid( the boost line from the turbo to the top of the injection pump) Easy way to check waste gate trouble is hook up a boost gage.

Not real motor smart here... what exactly does the aneroid do? Lots of ppl around me do something to the aneroid ( screw it all the way down or something i think) on 2388's and its like giving them another 100hp. They run like mad! The last 2388 we had was a complete dog and a mechanic came out and did this, we went from running 3.5mph and slowing down as the grain tank got full to running 5 mph unloading on the go without a drop in engine rpm... in the matter of the 5 mins it took him to mess with the aneroid.
I later talked to a very good desiel turbo guy and he said not to do this as it could damage the motor. Have numerous guys around me that have run these this way for years and had no trouble. Is it good or bad?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,199 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm going out on a limb here, but if you adjust the waste gate as such that it never opens, then you will be able to build more intake pressure than the engine was designed for. The waste gate may be set to hold a maximum of say 30 PSI, but if it can't open, then maybe the turbo will have enough exhaust to get to 40 PSI, which would gain you a substantial amount of HP.

The downside is that the piston and block is designed and tested at a certain PSI, and if you exceed that for long periods of time, then you'll have an engine failure sooner.

-Lance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,199 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:Have you spoken with the guys at Cummins Central Power in Cedar Rapids?

No, but that does seem like a logical place to start.

-Lance
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,236 Posts
Worked on a CIH tractor, the waste gate did not open all the way, adjusted it so it worked like it should. More HP. Put a pressure gauge on the intake to see what pressure you have.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,236 Posts
Yes you are right. the waste gate was open, i adjusted it so it was closed and when it pulled lower then rpm for that HP it would open. , thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
I had a customer of mine who had bought a 2001 2388 last summer it was a dog no power at all they did the pump and no better. They finally found the problem it was an elbow in the fuel line was partially blocked. As soon as the combine was under any sort of load it just would boog down. Don't know if this is your problem but I would start with the simple stuff first. Good Luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,199 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Pureel, did that machine surge power up and down, or was it a smooth when it ran low on power?

-Lance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
Rab-
Yeah lots of guys around here have been running them that way to and no one has had any trouble. If it does allow the boost to build past what the engine is spec'd for... it seems to handle it just fine. And boy does it make a combine out of a 2388!
Went for a 7010 for this year so hopefully power should not be an issue anymore! Its coming with the Small Diameter Rotor also which is suppose to help in tough beans, should be interesting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,199 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
But if we tighten the aneroid so the wastegate doesn't open, and the original problem was the fuel pump, then it will be running leaner than it is now, which isn't good at all.

-Lance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
I think the motor would probably handle more boost but I think I'd install a pyrometer before playing with it too much. As has been said a boost gauge would show any problems with the westgate or other turbo related problems (could be an intercooler line leaking). Otherwise I'd send the pump off to a good pump shop to have it rebuilt and tweaked for a little more power. I don't know how much more power an early 2388 can reliably handle but I've heard of some 2188s running close to what the 2588s are running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
The fuel filter would be the first thing I would change as its cheap and easy to do so. I read thats already been done. After that the injectors need swapping. If no joy then then the pump needs to be taken to a specialist. If the pump is at fault it is nearly always a $0.50 rubber seal somewhere in there that causes all the trouble.

Any other suggestions to fix this problem (such as closing the waste gate!!!!
) are just band aids that will likely just damage the engine. It will run perfectly in standard settings unless there is a problem. It needs air and fuel to run properly and its not getting enough of one or the other. Not enough air would be easy to diagnose as there would be black smoke everywhere and/or a loud hissing sound as the turbo wound up. That makes me think its not enough fuel, therefore the filter is first to be changed.

Most diesels will take a moderate increase in hp without any major problems however much more than that and some modifications to the cooling system need to be carried out such as a fan with one extra blade to displace a bigger volume of air through the radiator.

An other way to increase power is to have the engine management system chipped. The power gains are good however the result is more black smoke and carbon build up inside the engine as well as a big problem called bore wash. All of these seriously shorten the working life of a diesel engine. I have seen bore wash problems on highway trucks and cars that have had their effective engine life cut by 1/3 or more.

Considering the short amount of time that, at least, a farm owned combine operates for in its life then engine mods shouldn't be too much of an issue as long as you don't mind trading onwards a machine that you know you have shortened the engine life on, but buyer beware is what they say.

Other concerns are accelerated wear on the belts, chains, pullies, hydro pumps and valves and every other moving part of the machine. The combine being a complex machine by any standard, every part of it will be wearing considerably faster if its design specifications are exceeded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Pulling the pump or swapping injectors in not something I would do unless you narrow it down first. If the waste gate is stuck open I wouldn't consider it a "band-aid" fixing it. Talk to your dealer or local cummins shop to get some specs like boost pressure, fuel pressure from the lift pump, etc. good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,199 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
FYI, I believe this is now resolved. The wastegate seems to be stuck open so it can't build any boost at all.

Thanks for all the input guys.

-Lance
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top