We started with a 403 and been red ever since. Got a 2588 and had trouble I never had before, grinding everything up and low hp. Farm milo, corn ,(100-150bu-14%) little beans. All other AF's were grain rotors, this is AFX grain(short rasp bars-4 seperator bars). Started in milo-grain damage, ok power, went to corn- damage, no power. Did the usual stuff, open concave, slow rotor, pull wires(large wire concaves, keystock grates) nothing seems to help. Concaves were plugged in corn way more then any AF I ever had. Return low(1-2 bars) rotor loss high. Changed all filters 3 times, drained tank, pulled suction tube out of tank-no shavings, still engine would pull down to 1900 if you hit a vine. Last day of harvest service rep finally hooked lap top up(no 600) and called case. They said called for fuel pressure and supplied are close enough so engine is making all its power(?) and sent a software patch to try for next harvest. IMO I think the little rasp bars aren't getting the grain out of the rotor compounding the low power. Gordon says he hears this all the time and his bars will fix it. Case reps say they never heard of him(and the problem)and politely say I don't know how to set a AF yet. Please help
2588 trouble
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
If you farm Milo, I think the St. John rotor might be your best option? It has Gleaner style rasp bars. We have one in a 2188. It will get your rotor loss really low. I have not been around the AFX rotor, so I can't really compare to it.
Mike
http://www.stjohnwelding.com/St_John_Weldin/Modified_Raspx.html
Mike
http://www.stjohnwelding.com/St_John_Weldin/Modified_Raspx.html
Does anyone else see more damage with afx then grain rotor? Dealer thinks the engine pulling down is causing my damage and loss, I think its the rotor. They couldn't come up with different settings to help my concave plugging without grinding up the corn worse.
Talk to them again. They should know more about what was happening now, a "package" for specific 77/88's with AFX rotors has just been released to extend the inlet flighting. Only effects AF chassis machines not the 7010/8010.
I also have seen more grain damage with the specialty and AFX rotor versus the old standard rotor in corn but still don't get dockage at the elevator. I prefer the improved performance of the AFX in beans.
I also have seen more grain damage with the specialty and AFX rotor versus the old standard rotor in corn but still don't get dockage at the elevator. I prefer the improved performance of the AFX in beans.
Mine was built Oct 06 # 300237. Didn't open it or slow it much ,just never seen that much damage from previous machines. What about Gordon rasp bars. Will they make an afx more like a grain rotor or just waste money? What about more straight separator bars(concave & back). Would help get it out of concave but I don't want to make it pull even harder.
Joined
·
3,331 Posts
Maybe try another dealer???
Ive not heard of any issues with the 2588's we got along good with ours.
best of luck to you
Ive not heard of any issues with the 2588's we got along good with ours.
best of luck to you
I have the round bar concaves in the first and second position and large wire in third with every other wire out. I have less grain damage than the old 1660 had with standard rotor. I have 8 straight bars in back. I have first vane in slow position and vanes over grates in slow position. This will run in 240bpa corn with 8 row head at 5mph with almost no rotor loss. This is on a 2388 with the AFX rotor. You should have more hp than I have but I have never pulled the engine down. I run the rotor at about 330 to 350 rpm in first gear.
Make sure your concave gage is calibrated so your not running the concave to open. Check the rotor belt tension. If this is miss set the variable pulley torque compensation wont work correctly. This could pull the engine down instead of adjusting the speed automatically.
Is this a new or used machine? It may have a miss leveled concave. Check this adjustment in the book the AFX rotor is more sensitive to an un level concave hanger. This can disrupt the flow in the rotor causing grain damage and more power usage.
If you have the 1/4 wire concaves I think you need every other wire out especially in the first one so you get the corn out before it is damaged or it is lost out the rotor.
The way my AFX machine is set it does a better job in corn than any other rotary we have owned on back to the first 1460 that came out.
You should not need any of that expensive aftermarket junk.
Get after the dealer for help, that baby with the 305hp engine should run even better than mine.
Make sure your concave gage is calibrated so your not running the concave to open. Check the rotor belt tension. If this is miss set the variable pulley torque compensation wont work correctly. This could pull the engine down instead of adjusting the speed automatically.
Is this a new or used machine? It may have a miss leveled concave. Check this adjustment in the book the AFX rotor is more sensitive to an un level concave hanger. This can disrupt the flow in the rotor causing grain damage and more power usage.
If you have the 1/4 wire concaves I think you need every other wire out especially in the first one so you get the corn out before it is damaged or it is lost out the rotor.
The way my AFX machine is set it does a better job in corn than any other rotary we have owned on back to the first 1460 that came out.
You should not need any of that expensive aftermarket junk.
Get after the dealer for help, that baby with the 305hp engine should run even better than mine.
gpm-Thanks for all the info. Not sure if round bars would work in my milo. Used to get unthreshed milo clusters if I pulled more then the 3rd concave wires. Sounds good in corn.
New combine ordered July 06. Mechanic and I zeroed gauge, leveled concaves, checked pinch point. Ran corn 350(wouldn't pull slower), concave 4(3 cornmeal, 5 plugged concaves).
Dealer is good, trying to help, but following the chain up till the right person steps up to help.
New combine ordered July 06. Mechanic and I zeroed gauge, leveled concaves, checked pinch point. Ran corn 350(wouldn't pull slower), concave 4(3 cornmeal, 5 plugged concaves).
Dealer is good, trying to help, but following the chain up till the right person steps up to help.
your combine is acting very different than mine does. I run 3 to 3.5 on concave and can run down to 290 rpm in dry corn with out much power. It seems like your rotor is missing some parts. Are all the cage vanes in place including the ones in the front by the auger on the rotor? Do you have the kicker bars on the back of the rotor? Do you have a beater or chopper? Are these slowing down material exit from the rotor? In corn I run the chopper on slow and retract the knives and lower the shield to free flow out of rotor.
It appears the crop is not flowing thru the rotor and is bunching up and taking lots of power and grinding grain up. Clumps or bunches would cause rotor loss because the grain would be trapped in the MOG.
150 bpa corn should be piece of cake for machine. Or Do you have a 12 row corn head on combine? I run an 8 row and run 5.5 to 6 mph in 200bpa corn.
Good luck, you may have got the combine that should have been painted yellow.
It appears the crop is not flowing thru the rotor and is bunching up and taking lots of power and grinding grain up. Clumps or bunches would cause rotor loss because the grain would be trapped in the MOG.
150 bpa corn should be piece of cake for machine. Or Do you have a 12 row corn head on combine? I run an 8 row and run 5.5 to 6 mph in 200bpa corn.
Good luck, you may have got the combine that should have been painted yellow.
I agree with gpmci102 that kind of yeild should not cause those problems. We used to run large wire concaves with every other wire pulled when we had a 2388 and had trouble with them plugging with corn leaves. When we went to the 2588 we put in aftermarket round bar concaves and that ended the concave plugging. You can add cover plates to them so I don't know if that would be a possibility for milo....have never harvested the crop. I assume that you have the veins retarded but if not I know I gained 0.2 MPH each time I retarded another set.
As for the Gordon Bars to the best of my knowledge you can not put them on an AFX rotor. We ran them on the specialty (sp?) rotor but when we switched to the AFX the mounting brackets did not match. Maybe Marvin has altered his design to make them fit now I don't know for sure.
Adding more straight bars will keep the grain in the machine longer which should help with seperation and cut rotor loss but will it damage the grain more being in there longer????
Power problem I don't know. I talked to a custom harvester this summer and they had a 2588 that seemed short on power and when they hooked the computer up they found out it had been programmed for a 2577. Changed the setting and solved the problem. I assume if you've had the computer hooked up that should have been noticed.
For comparison I was running around 5 MPH with an 8 row head this fall in 150 bpa, 20% corn. Concave was around 4.5 and rotor speed 320. Round bar concaves, all veins retarded, 6 straight bars on rear of rotor and virtually no rotor loss. Could have been going faster but the stalk rolls were near replacement. Now that they've been changed I can't wait for corn harvest.
Hope this helps and good luck
As for the Gordon Bars to the best of my knowledge you can not put them on an AFX rotor. We ran them on the specialty (sp?) rotor but when we switched to the AFX the mounting brackets did not match. Maybe Marvin has altered his design to make them fit now I don't know for sure.
Adding more straight bars will keep the grain in the machine longer which should help with seperation and cut rotor loss but will it damage the grain more being in there longer????
Power problem I don't know. I talked to a custom harvester this summer and they had a 2588 that seemed short on power and when they hooked the computer up they found out it had been programmed for a 2577. Changed the setting and solved the problem. I assume if you've had the computer hooked up that should have been noticed.
For comparison I was running around 5 MPH with an 8 row head this fall in 150 bpa, 20% corn. Concave was around 4.5 and rotor speed 320. Round bar concaves, all veins retarded, 6 straight bars on rear of rotor and virtually no rotor loss. Could have been going faster but the stalk rolls were near replacement. Now that they've been changed I can't wait for corn harvest.
Hope this helps and good luck
Hate to tell you but on a 2588 the pro 600 will only act as a yield monitor, it can't display engine info like it does on the 7010/8010. It is hard to do, but have the dealer look closely at the rasp bar configuration, easiest with rotor out. I know that sometimes "experimental" configurations make it to an unknowing customer, hope this is not the case for you. Really the dealer should give you another machine until they figure out what's wrong! good luck
I didn't know that's all it would could do on a 2588. Thanks!
Redhat:I talked to service manager about package. He called me back and said ya know there is something for 07 25's, but made it sound like it was on rear of flighting or rasp bars. Don't know how it could be attached to bars, but he was going to e-mail it to me tomorrow.
Still all afx's before didn't have this so it probably won't fix my problem.
Spun rotor and all rasp bars look in a spiral like book shows.
Redhat:I talked to service manager about package. He called me back and said ya know there is something for 07 25's, but made it sound like it was on rear of flighting or rasp bars. Don't know how it could be attached to bars, but he was going to e-mail it to me tomorrow.
Still all afx's before didn't have this so it probably won't fix my problem.
Spun rotor and all rasp bars look in a spiral like book shows.
Wow I never had a concave plug like that. Now I can see why you are grinding up the corn and all of it is going out the rotor. The only way I can figure that this could happen is that the concave is open to much. If the concave is closed it should push all this junk thru the concaves especially in 14% moisture corn. I would go and set the concave to "3" and then measure with a ruler the distance between the rasp bar and the top of the wires on your concave. Turn the rotor and check several rasp bars clearance around the rotor and check across the first and second concave. When the concave gage is set to "3" the clearance should be less than the diameter of your clean corn cob. Milo uses a "3" setting also. I can't tell if you have every other wire out but if you do then on a "3" setting in 14% corn it should be pushing everything thru the concaves onto the augers.
If the concave setting is open a real "5" or more the concave would plug and the rotor would not be able to push the crop around until it packed in and then it would bunch and chunk thru the rotor requiring more horsepower.
I have a 5.9l Cummins engine that I have played with and taken from 230hp to 300hp. Cummins has free software that you can run on a PC and plug into the engine controller and read all the parameters. Unless CASE screwed up this feature you should be able to read the turbo boost and the fuel flow. Turbo boost and exhaust temperature really show if you are making the HP. The 5.9l has 30psi boost with 1200F exhaust into the turbo when its doing 300hp. The Case dealer should be able to read these from the engine control module thru the "CAN" data bus. I think you probably are making the power because with concaves plugged like that I bet it is really pulling the engine. Normally most of the corn is out at the first concave when I do one of those stall and kill tests.
If your concave clearance is good than since you bought this new I would be looking for the biggest shot at Case who has the biggest A-hole to shove your combine up.
Good luck again and that is about all of my ideas. Sure is a strange problem since my AFX rotor is very forgiving for many different settings. I have had many combines back to the 915 and 1460 but this 2388 with the AFX rotor is the easiest to set of them all.
If the concave setting is open a real "5" or more the concave would plug and the rotor would not be able to push the crop around until it packed in and then it would bunch and chunk thru the rotor requiring more horsepower.
I have a 5.9l Cummins engine that I have played with and taken from 230hp to 300hp. Cummins has free software that you can run on a PC and plug into the engine controller and read all the parameters. Unless CASE screwed up this feature you should be able to read the turbo boost and the fuel flow. Turbo boost and exhaust temperature really show if you are making the HP. The 5.9l has 30psi boost with 1200F exhaust into the turbo when its doing 300hp. The Case dealer should be able to read these from the engine control module thru the "CAN" data bus. I think you probably are making the power because with concaves plugged like that I bet it is really pulling the engine. Normally most of the corn is out at the first concave when I do one of those stall and kill tests.
If your concave clearance is good than since you bought this new I would be looking for the biggest shot at Case who has the biggest A-hole to shove your combine up.
Good luck again and that is about all of my ideas. Sure is a strange problem since my AFX rotor is very forgiving for many different settings. I have had many combines back to the 915 and 1460 but this 2388 with the AFX rotor is the easiest to set of them all.
I enlarged your pictures so I could see more detail. It looks like there is some corn on the cobs that are stuck in the concave. It does not look like the stalks are "hair pinning" around the straight rotor bars like I have seen in high moisture corn. The stuff is just stuffed in the concave.
It sure looks like your concave is open to much.
You might try a case round bar concave in the second or third position. My round bars are very clean and never have much material stuck in them. The first wire concave will thresh out your milo and beans and the second round bar won't plug and will let the grain get out.
I would like to set the rotor at 350 rpm and crank the concave down more and see what happens.
It sure looks like your concave is open to much.
You might try a case round bar concave in the second or third position. My round bars are very clean and never have much material stuck in them. The first wire concave will thresh out your milo and beans and the second round bar won't plug and will let the grain get out.
I would like to set the rotor at 350 rpm and crank the concave down more and see what happens.
Only had to tighten rotor belt a little once in 90 sep. hrs. Veins and kickers there. Have beater.
Farm 8/40"on beds. Harvest 7 rows and straddle 3, so not to drive on top of the row. Used to go 5.5-6 mph with 2188 now 4-5 mph doing a terrible job.
Used to run concave veins retarded/ sep. veins retarded in corn. No loss , a few cobs in concave. Now plugged with leaves and some cobs. Have pictures if I knew best way to post.
Milo mid/mid. I left them there cause I was grinding up everything and didn't want to hold it in even longer.
Marvin said I might have to ream some mounting holes to get the bars to reach from mount to mount. Not too crazy about doing that kind of rigging.
Not sure if sep. bars would hold the grain in longer or push it out more. Never had them before cause prior AF's were all grain rotors.
About power, rep finally hooked the computer up the last 20 acres of harvest. I don't want to say anything bad, but most of them the dealer and I have talked to seem to be still learning. Rep was on the phone the whole time with mother case and all I really got out of it was if called for fuel pressure and supplied were close enough the engine had to be making all its power. Not sure if I agree cause what if you don't have enough volume? Maybe it wouldn't make its called for pressure if it didn't have enough volume is what Case is saying, I don't know for sure. Figured I could get the Pro 600 later, now they want twice the money. Anybody got one for sale?
Everyones advice is greatly appreciated.
Farm 8/40"on beds. Harvest 7 rows and straddle 3, so not to drive on top of the row. Used to go 5.5-6 mph with 2188 now 4-5 mph doing a terrible job.
Used to run concave veins retarded/ sep. veins retarded in corn. No loss , a few cobs in concave. Now plugged with leaves and some cobs. Have pictures if I knew best way to post.
Milo mid/mid. I left them there cause I was grinding up everything and didn't want to hold it in even longer.
Marvin said I might have to ream some mounting holes to get the bars to reach from mount to mount. Not too crazy about doing that kind of rigging.
Not sure if sep. bars would hold the grain in longer or push it out more. Never had them before cause prior AF's were all grain rotors.
About power, rep finally hooked the computer up the last 20 acres of harvest. I don't want to say anything bad, but most of them the dealer and I have talked to seem to be still learning. Rep was on the phone the whole time with mother case and all I really got out of it was if called for fuel pressure and supplied were close enough the engine had to be making all its power. Not sure if I agree cause what if you don't have enough volume? Maybe it wouldn't make its called for pressure if it didn't have enough volume is what Case is saying, I don't know for sure. Figured I could get the Pro 600 later, now they want twice the money. Anybody got one for sale?
Everyones advice is greatly appreciated.
ss4- That is the package I am talking about. The flighting is extended and depending on the machine the package is bolted or welded on. There is a difference between the 25xx machines and the 23xx machines with AFX rotor since there are two different packages.
Is the corn your harvesting drought stressed? 14% moisture is really dry at harvest. I have experienced plugging like you show, plants are weak and more than usual amounts of trash are put through the machine and plug concaves. Cob is also very rubbery and requires the concaves to be set tighter. Round bars definately help in this situation.
Is the corn your harvesting drought stressed? 14% moisture is really dry at harvest. I have experienced plugging like you show, plants are weak and more than usual amounts of trash are put through the machine and plug concaves. Cob is also very rubbery and requires the concaves to be set tighter. Round bars definately help in this situation.
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
