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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
While combining with my 2588, the engine started sputtering as if it was running out of fuel. It did this a few times, so I headed for the fuel tank as it acted like it was running out of fuel. I shut the engine off and tried to restart it, but no luck. Put fuel in it and tried again with no success. So, I changed the fuel filters by using the operating manual procedure and still no luck. Today was the coldest day so far this winter 10 degrees. Thought maybe the fuel might be gelling so that is why I changed the filters. Any suggestions on what I could try next would be appreciated.


Thanks,
BuffaloMan
 

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Not sure where your at but are you still running number two diesel? You might have a strainer that's plugged, are you sure you got all the fuel filters? Do those combines use an electric lift pump like New Holland? We ran for years without our lift pumps working and the machines were fine. To test the lift pump just turn the key to the run position and listen, you should hear some fast ticking then it will slow down and almost stop. If it does it is building pressure, if it continue to run fast it might be a suction issue, if it doesn't tick at all it might be burnt out but make sure you have sufficient power and ground, if you don't check the fuelpump fuse in the cab. If the pump is building pressure go up to the engine and loosen a bleed screw and make sure you have a good clean flow of fuel without any interruptions or air bubbles. If that's good try to loosen a line or bleed plug as close to the fuel pump as you can after the filters and make sure you still have a good clean flow of fuel.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The 2588 has an 8.3 Liter Cummins engine. It does have an electric fuel pump after the fuel/water separator filter. There is a good flow of fuel coming out of the petcock going toward the gear pump where eventually it creates a high fuel pressure to the injectors. The line from the electric pump passes through the ECM and then goes to the gear pump and then to the input of the final filter. The flow is very little coming out of the final filter when turning the key on and activating the electric pump. I don't know if this normal. I'd like to think the electric pump is the culprit and not the high pressure pump. I think I will have to have someone with a service tool come and check for any fault codes to help diagnose the exact part that is failing. Any other suggestions are welcome.
 

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I would have to walk up to one again but if I remember correctly the electric pump was still just a lift pump and the engine should still run without it, but what kind of fuel system is on it? Does it still have an inline pump or did them already have common rail? If it's common rail that would change a lot of things
 

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2588 are common rail, did any of the lights come on the engine monitor that was added to the side of the a post. All I remember is they were a bear to change filter on and get running even when it was warm out
A bear they are for sure. Like a grizzly with chapped rear end. To get those to start some time it's not even enough just to bleed filters. Might have to even crack a line at the common rail. Crank just enough to get fuel just coming out. Those common rails have extremely high pressure that can cause you harm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The diagnostic failure light came on after a few minutes of running into the problem, but not right away. Can ether assist be used to help start the engine or is that a no no? I know the manual says not to, but I'm not sure why?
 

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You can use either but don't use the preheat. I know sometimes you had to use either with the Cat C15s but never heard of using it with any other engine after filter changes.

How does the fuel shutoff work on those? Do they still have the little solenoid? Might want to ohm it and make sure it has power.

What year is this combine? If the monitor is anything like New Hollands from the early 2000s there are windows in there you can use to diagnose the electrical for the fuel system. The monitor will also show fuel pressure and such but ours are New Holland powered, not sure about Cummins.
 

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Just as a general question ( being that I am not at all familiar with that engine system ) , as you are cranking it over is there any sign of smoke or an attempt to fire the least little bit ?. If there is no sign of anything, chances are its not getting any fuel and as I've found out myself, with no fuel its pointless to use ether as it typically won't do a thing ( will not run on ether alone like a gas engine can ) but will load it up with ether if too much used and then when the injectors do start spraying, some bad things could happen with the diesel lighting up at the wrong part of the stroke. Even worse is when a diesel is getting fuel and not starting because its too cold out and the engine block heater wasn't plugged in and then go and put ether in as it has all this raw fuel in the cylinders and ... well offroadnt, you can probably explain better what the inside of the engine looks like after pulling that stunt with engines you've been around after the fact.

Glow plugs and ether together is a huge no no, the instant the ether enters the cylinder it fires and it doesn't care two hoots where the piston position or valves are at ... just don't do that !.

Sorry for the rant but just don't want to see you cause harm out of exasperation in trying things to get it running. If it has a block heater on it, that for sure should be plugged in as it will give the engine the best chance of starting once some fuel starts coming through.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It is a 2007 and it does have a solenoid on injection pump. On this combine there are no error codes displayed visually. If there are error codes you have to have a service tool that plugs into the combine and reads the error code(s). I wish it did have the capability to display error codes and tell the user the failing component(s). Fuel pressure at the lift pump and then at the input to the common rail or each injector would be great.
 

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On our 06 2388 it takes forever to get the engine running after changing filters. If you don't bleed it at the filters it will never get going. I don't think those electric lift pumps do much, at least ours doesn't. We have even put a little air pressure in the fuel tank to help. If you've got the air bled off at the filters or pump, and nothing else seems to be wrong, you've just got to turn the engine over and over and over until it starts. Cycling it the way the book tells you to hasn't worked for us. I think it's so stupid they don't have a hand primer. Would save a lot of wear and tear on the starter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You are right TSwanson about the hand primer. I don't know why they don't. Maybe it has to do with the common rail. I dunno. I did try again yesterday and still no luck. I did crack a connector or two at the common rail and did see fuel coming out. I don't know if it is enough fuel to open the injector, evidently not.

I changed fuel filters on my 1440 and it fired right up. No hand priming required. Just filled the new filters up with fuel, turned the key on and let the electric lift pump run a little and turned the key and it fired right up. No such luck with the 2588 and it is 34 years newer. Scratching my head on this one.
 

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Probably not relevant as didn't realise 2588 was common rail, but had a 1666 years ago with similar problem. Would go for days even weeks with no power issues then it would just die from fuel starvation so I thought. Cant remember how many times we changed both fuel filters even air filters, all with the problem returning. Seemed to be you would let it sit for a while then start it and away you would go, maybe for an hour or a week before it would die again. Even drained the fuel tank and pulled it out, by this stage thought it most have been a chickpea or pebble rolling across the pick up in the tank still no luck. Finally found the problem small bit of straw in a tiny mesh in line filter in the hand primer pump. The primer pump was on the fuel pump side of water separator filter and also the smaller particle filter. Don't know how it got there because always very careful to change filters in a clean environment (even more particular now). Point been don't wright off a good inspection of the fuel system after the filters for bits of crap.
 

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Fill filter with dexron 2. A lot easier to bleed a diesel on Dexron. More volatile , and doesn't foam as bad.
Never heard of that, you do it? It'll actually run on ATF? Dextron II only? That is fascinating! If it's more volatile will the engine knock until it's out of the system?
 

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I have never done it on common rail. The old pump system all the time. Throw a bit of atf on a fire. More volatile than diesel. Not much different than biodiesel. No knock. No smoke. Probably half diluted by the time it hits injectors. ATF doesn't foam as bad as diesel. Clean bottle to fill filter with. Just use a dexron 2 as new atf has friction modifiers in them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I thought I'd post what I found wrong. I only had to replace 1 part, the injection pump. Ugh.....I did learn alot about how the fuel system works in this combine with the computer electronics controlling much of it. Hugh step from the 1440. One good thing is there isn't any timing to worry about when changing the pump likr aligning timing marks with camshaft gear. Pretty much unbolt it, bolt up the new one, bleed it with the lift pump and turn the starter a few times. Also, the pump is ALOT cheaper through Cummins.
 
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