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See some photos of the rear end attached.
That should answer some of the questions.
Arie
Forgive the ignorance of this question, but I assume that drawbar is solid and not tubular? I had to ask as the appearance of it can be either way. I would sure think it solid and of higher carbon, but one never knows now days. Thanks.
 

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Forgive the ignorance of this question, but I assume that drawbar is solid and not tubular? I had to ask as the appearance of it can be either way. I would sure think it solid and of higher carbon, but one never knows now days. Thanks.
The worst question is the one that you do not ask :)

Metal is much cheaper in Belarus / Russia, so one thing our factory did not learn how to do is skimp on metal. It's a solid construction, high strength design.
 

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See some photos of the rear end attached.
That should answer some of the questions.
Arie
Thanks for the pics Arie. Almost looks like the 3pt not quite as heavily built as it was on the 700s, but then I'm just seeing pics not the real thing...I see several components are totally redesigned. Big balls are gone replaced with Quicktach...is that all they come with? Double acting control is still a good thing...is there still the ability to eliminate down pressure as you did by pulling the pins at the cylinder linkage on the 700s? For myself, I'd prefer to stick to pulling from the bottom links as opposed to a drawbar, maybe just an old habit, but I use my old Kirovets for some jobs simply because of that hitch. I have my own crossbar that pivots and everything, works much better than the crossbar with clevis they came with.

And do my eyes deceive me or do I see more than one gladhand for trailer brakes? If they are now rigged for supply and braking on separate lines...that is awesome:)
 

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Big balls are gone replaced with Quicktach...is that all they come with?
Yes. I would assume that old style links could be ordered as a custom option, or maybe attached from an old 700.

is there still the ability to eliminate down pressure as you did by pulling the pins at the cylinder linkage on the 700s ?
Do not quote me on that, but I think in the new one it's done in a more civilized manner, from the cab.

And do my eyes deceive me or do I see more than one glad hand for trailer brakes? If they are now rigged for supply and braking on separate lines...that is awesome
It looks this way.

I asked the factory to provide a detailed comparison against all majors, should have it soon.
Our intent is not to sell the tractor just based on prices.
It's a simpler and more rugged machine then most competitors.
And it has several interesting technical solutions which are actually better then competitive designs.

The farmers and markets are voting with their hard earned money.
There is a reason why about 100,000 Kirovets are still running world wide, and last year over 2,000 units were produced.
 

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Thanks for the information, arie515. Very interesting. When there's a machine in Alberta I will definitely make a trip to have a look at it. We're not in the market for a new tractor just yet, but this has definitely piqued our interest! Certainly when the CVT version is available.
 

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Not to be negative about what looks like an interesting machine, but its easy to retain a domestic market and produce 2000 units a year when the Russian government puts a 19% tariff on importing machinery to their country.
 

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Sorry but I don't understand your point. Whether Russia is blocking western machines or not is irrelevant to this thread. This machine is interesting because it's simple, well-built, uses a reliable German power train with lots of horsepower, seems to have an acceptable cab and user ergonomics, and will be imported and sold for around $200k USD, about 1/3 the price of Red, Blue or Green tractors. The fact they do produce so many machines is relevant simply because it means parts will be easy to come by and the machine will be supported for some time. And if the CVT version becomes available and proves reliable, that's coming out ahead of the incumbent brands here in North America. If Deere or Case want to compete on similar merits (including price), they are more than welcome to, and I'd certainly buy from them over the Kirovet if all things were equal--dealer support would be a primary factor in that case.

But whether or not Russia is subsidizing the manufacturer (or blocking western trade) is not really a part of this conversation, unless you're implying that it is immoral or dishonest to buy such an imported machine because Russia is unfairly restricting access to their domestic machinery market, and subsidizing the manufacturing of this tractor. Or if you are morally opposed to Putin, that's a legitimate opinion and reason for buying such a machine.

If enough machines do get imported, I imagine that overall prices will eventually rise to meet our domestic prices and the price advantage will erode. In the meantime, price is a strong factor in its favor if other things are equal. And it's possible that if Deere and CNH (and others) were threatened sufficiently, we might see tariffs brought to bear on our end to counter Russian tarrifs. But the market will win out in the end. It's good to have competition entering.
 

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Probably dumb questions but why are these tractors called Kirovet when the the name on the hood and brochures seem to use different names. Around here they all seemed to be named Balarus.

When you say a hundred thousand tractors do you mean every tractor this company built all the way from the smallest to the largest? That would have a huge effect on parts and service availability as I bet smaller models outnumber these a hundred to one.

How are they getting away with tier three emissions? Surplus engines? Why are they allowed tier three when everybody else must be tier four? We have a bunch of tier three engines with mechanical fuel pumps but they are under two hundred horsepower.

Isn't Kirovet in bed with Versatile somehow?

How is the recent political climate between Russia and the rest of the world going to affect getting parts and service for this equipment?

I'm not dissing this tractor, it might be the best ever built but just wondering how they plan to prevent this machine turning into a 200,000 dollar lump of steel sitting on the edge of a field because you can't get parts.
 

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No the Versatile is completely different.

I understand Versatile is Russian owned and the combine that's floating around is Balarus built?
 

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From what I can glean on this thread, Kirovet is the largest tractor manufacturer in Russia. Their machines have been sold under different names here, including Belarus. There's another company called MTZ, and their tractors have also been sold under the Belarus name. In Soviet times, the government amalgamated the exports under one brand I guess.

Versatile is owned by Rostelmash, which is a huge Russian combine maker. I suppose Rostelmash wanted to have a complete line of farm equipment so they bought the struggling Versatile company. The Versatile combine is the Rostelmash Torum machine (scaled up to class 7 or 8 which might be why they are so disappointing), which they developed some years ago. It's possible that Rostelmash combines were exported under the Belarus name in the 80s. I don't know.
 

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Just saw the Tier 3 question. The reason they can sell Tier 3 engines is because the EPA implemented the standards with a quota or cap for manufacturers. The big domestic companies have reached their cap a long time ago whereas companies like Versatile (only sells Tier 3 in their new 4wds) and these imported machines have not yet, though they certainly will eventually.
 

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Discussion Starter #54 (Edited)
Kirovets is its own company in Russia that have been making these big 4 wheel drives for like 50 years.


Belarus (the country) was part of the soviet union located beside Russia and the Ukraine. They have the big factory in Minsk (MTZ) that makes all these smaller series tractors. Which are mostly all under 100hp which they made millions of in the cold war days known for being simple, cheaply built and easy to repair. They still produce the smaller tractors as well as some bigger MFWD over 200hp models along with other things. These are still imported into the Canada and the US but now under the MTZ brand name. Seems depending market they use the Belarus label or MTZ.


Kirovets along with some 4wheel tractors from the Ukraine, combines and other farm equipment were exported to Canada and the US all under the Belarus brand name starting back in the early 70's. I believe the 1st Kroviets came over (under the Belarus name) in the mid 70's. From what I've read over the years the Kirovet guys take offence when you call their tractor a Belarus!


As for the concerns of parts and resale .... for sure a valid issue like with anything uncommon in the local market. These will be huge issues the new generation of Kroviets coming over here will be up against. If they perform and work well they'll do alright. I imagine the engine components could be sourced where ever if need be providing its a common Mercedes Benz engine. As for the rest of it parts are available just depends on how much will be stocked in country and how long it is to get stuff from across the pond. IF they are well built then they shouldn't need .... any parts other then service items :54: So much stuff now a days is built over seas and companies manage in all industries.
 

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Many good questions, some addressed by sawyer99.
Let's go one by one.

why are these tractors called Kirovet when the the name on the hood and brochures seem to use different names. Around here they all seemed to be named Balarus.
Those tractors were made for the last 60+ years at the "Kirovets" factory in St Petersburg, Russia.
For marketing purpose, all USSR made tractors were marketed under the same "Belarus" brand.

When you say a hundred thousand tractors do you mean every tractor this company built all the way from the smallest to the largest? That would have a huge effect on parts and service availability as I bet smaller models outnumber these a hundred to one.
Kirovets factory is making only the large articulated 4WD (roughly 300-550 hp). Over 500,000 units were made so far, about 100,000 are still running. Current production stands at about 2,000 units / year, and rising.
If I had to guess, this is the highest production large tractor, or for sure in top 3.

When a customer is considering future support, those numbers are critical. There is strength in numbers. With a large installed base, and more coming into the market, you can be guaranteed of continuous supply down the road, either through the factory and/or from 3rd party sources.
With small volume models, a customer is at the sole mercy of the manufacturer, since there is no economic incentive for 3rd party supplier to invest in low demand parts.

How are they getting away with tier three emissions? Surplus engines? Why are they allowed tier three when everybody else must be tier four?
EPA (Environment Protection Agency, USA) , as well as Canadian Environment Agency are running "low volume exemption program" for Tier 3, valid until 2017/2018.
Most major manufacturers run down their quota long time ago. MTZ still has quota available, but then the tractors will switch to Tier 4 , like everyone else.
So the window of opportunity for the simpler Tier 3 engines is fairly narrow.

Isn't Kirovet in bed with Versatile somehow?
No relations. If anything, they are competitors.
ROSSELMASH is the largest Russian combines manufacturer. They purchased Versatile few years ago. They market Versatile in Russia to compete with Kirovets (not much success). And they market Russian combines under Versatile brand in USA/Canada.
By the way, from independent forums that I read, those are good combines.

How is the recent political climate between Russia and the rest of the world going to affect getting parts and service for this equipment?
If we look back, Belarus / Kirovets tractors and parts were imported to USA/Canada for over 50 years. And even during the cold war, Afghanistan invasion and all other crises parts and tractors were still available. So it's safe to assume that parts availability will still be there, either directly from Russia, or through Canada, Germany, Ukraine or any of the other 50+ countries using the Kirovets.

I'm not dissing this tractor, it might be the best ever built but just wondering how they plan to prevent this machine turning into a 200,000 dollar lump of steel sitting on the edge of a field because you can't get parts.
Again , looking back, there are still dozens of Kirovets running in USA/Canada, and they are 20-30 years old. I guess that's the best proof a company can provide about parts availability.
 

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Sorry but I don't understand your point. Whether Russia is blocking western machines or not is irrelevant to this thread. This machine is interesting because it's simple, well-built, uses a reliable German power train with lots of horsepower, seems to have an acceptable cab and user ergonomics, and will be imported and sold for around $200k USD, about 1/3 the price of Red, Blue or Green tractors. The fact they do produce so many machines is relevant simply because it means parts will be easy to come by and the machine will be supported for some time. And if the CVT version becomes available and proves reliable, that's coming out ahead of the incumbent brands here in North America. If Deere or Case want to compete on similar merits (including price), they are more than welcome to, and I'd certainly buy from them over the Kirovet if all things were equal--dealer support would be a primary factor in that case.

But whether or not Russia is subsidizing the manufacturer (or blocking western trade) is not really a part of this conversation, unless you're implying that it is immoral or dishonest to buy such an imported machine because Russia is unfairly restricting access to their domestic machinery market, and subsidizing the manufacturing of this tractor. Or if you are morally opposed to Putin, that's a legitimate opinion and reason for buying such a machine.

If enough machines do get imported, I imagine that overall prices will eventually rise to meet our domestic prices and the price advantage will erode. In the meantime, price is a strong factor in its favor if other things are equal. And it's possible that if Deere and CNH (and others) were threatened sufficiently, we might see tariffs brought to bear on our end to counter Russian tarrifs. But the market will win out in the end. It's good to have competition entering.
Sorry I should of explained my view a little better. That is great if there are 2000 of them made world wide a year and that many of them made over a long history, however how many of those total machines ever made it to North America and if all the parts are in Russia they don't do anyone any good over here.

I believe the machine has some potential in the North American market, but when retailer goes on about how many machines are made and sold worldwide it is a skewed number when they are sold in a protected domestic market. What would happen if the US closed their borders to Claas (Lexion), Fendt, and other international manufacturers? Would make the Case, John Deere and New Holland numbers look better too.

One more question though, what happens in 2017/2018 when they have to go to Final Tier 4 (or god forbid Tier 5) and a potential decision is made its not economical to sell these machines in North America.
 
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