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Discussion Starter #1
Yesterday was our first day in the field with the 4430 Patriot and I can see why people like this machine. It was very pleasant to drive. Only had one problem. Every so often, sometimes more often than at other times, the pump would just stop and the master start button would need to be pushed to start it back up again. If I don't catch it I end up missing a big chunk. Either way I have to go back over it. On the map it shows the miss clearly. Sometimes I feel like it happens when slowing down, other times it seems random. No rate or flow messages pop up. Nothing in the fault log.


This morning the problem is happening with high frequency! Slows down the acres/hour a lot when I have to stop and back up all the time.


Are there any settings I need to be looking at? Some kind of interaction between the command pro and the sprayer's computer? Does the Aim Command Pro use its own pressure sensor separate from the one the AFS 700 uses? If so maybe a bad wire or intermittent issue with it that's triggering the seal saver shutdown. I might disable that temporarily and see if that helps (and if I have apparent pressure fluctations).


Just wondering if anyone has had this problem before.
 

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it's been a while, but I had this problem quite a few times in 3 years running a 4420 with pinpoint and never figured it out. my best guess was air in the system somewhere. there should be a separate pressure sensor. also, if you think that's bad, wait until you get a missing vcm error. case had plenty of reasons to ditch capstan.
 

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Torriem let us know what you figure out. In all the years I have run my 4420 I have never had this happen. I am wondering if there is something wrong in the settings or could it be the pressure guage or sensor. When there is no pressure the pump does turn off but for me that is when the tank is completley empty so pump does not run dry.
 

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Anything in the tank or pump supply lines to restrict flow? Never had this happen with ours. When you run it out of spray the pump shutoff light comes on followed by low pressure and rate out of application range alarms popping up.

Is the yellow banjo valve underneath closed? Under and towards the front from where the pump is. Was told it should be closed otherwise the pump has to work a lot harder.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Still fighting this. It's not the pinpoint pump seal saver shutdown, near as I can tell. The pressure on the command pro monitor holds pretty steady. I thought I noticed that the AFS pressure was a little low and that might be triggering the shutdown. But not sure. It's very frustrating. This morning it's happening every couple of minutes. The dealer thought the hydraulic flow valve needed replacing so we did that, but it had no effect whatsoever on the problem. So that was $500 wasted.

Will check the yellow valve. I'm not sure where air in the system would be the problem. The capstan pressure sensor is not far from the other pressure sensor on the main feed line at the back. No chance of air in there.

The other day I could spray a hundred acres without problems, then had 4 shutdowns in 10 minutes.

According to the manual, for the rates and speeds we're currently using, we should turn the big flow reducer valve behind the flow sensor, so we have done that.


Other than this show stopper, we love it when it's all working.
 

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Just grasping here as I am not familiar with the IH system at all but, maybe you have a slightly corroded connector to one of your pressure sensors. Could have a pin with just a bit of green on it and it periodically looses full contact sending a false signal. Some of these modern systems run on milli-amps and it doesn't take much of an interruption to cause gremlins. This could be from a sensor or the pump itself, any electrical plug in that system. Take each one apart and examine with a strong light and magnifier if you have one, clean any that may look suspect then put back together with dielectric grease. Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Anything in the tank or pump supply lines to restrict flow? Never had this happen with ours. When you run it out of spray the pump shutoff light comes on followed by low pressure and rate out of application range alarms popping up.
When the pump kicks out there's no low pressure or rate warnings whatsoever.
 

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Not sure if it will fix your problem, but we are having this same issue with our apache 1010. Any time the horn is honked, pump quits. change dial on the AC fan speed, pump quits. We had it in the shop this week and found an extremely loose ground wire connected to the main electrical distribution box. Cleaned and tightened it...honking the horn doesn't make the pump quit anymore, still need to test it in the field though.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Redid a number of ground points today. Also I noticed a wiring harness (I think it does feed Aim Command Pro) had been damaged previously and some wires had been spliced by someone else. It looked okay, though. I did cut and splice two additional wires that looked a tiny bit suspect. Taped it all back up again. No change in behavior, though. The master apply still kicks out several times per field. There could still be a bad connection in this harness. I'm sure I could easily replace the entire harness, but since that's likely a bit of money I want to be sure first.

The next step is to run without Aim Command Pro and see if the problem still happens. If so, then it's on the Case side of things, not Capstan. But I'll have to change nozzles for that, though.

What I'd like to know is how (through what wires) the Aim Command Pro is signalling a shutdown when the seal saver thing is tripped. I don't believe the seal saver is tripping, but that mechanism would seem to me to be the first place to look. I'm going to ask my dealer if they can put me in touch with Capstan as they should have a pretty good idea of how the two systems communicate with each other. Even though they told my dealer they've never heard of this happening before (and Case claims they haven't either).

The service manual I found for the 4430 doesn't have any information whatsoever on Aim Command Pro. Otherwise I'd have the schematic I'd need.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think the Aim Command Pro (at least our version) is the PinPoint I. I haven't found the pdf for that yet.
 

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I think the Aim Command Pro (at least our version) is the PinPoint I. I haven't found the pdf for that yet.
As far as i know the only change to pinpoint 2 is a bigger display. Wiring should be the same. Could be wrong but i know you can swap displays out. There used to be a program where you could swap for the bigger one.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Okay I think we fixed it finally. A while back I noticed that one of the wiring bundles that goes down the arm to the center rack had been damaged. Looks like it had snagged on the frame when the rack was lifted up. Ripped a couple of wires that had been then been spliced back together before we owned the machine. The splice looked okay to me, though. However I traced the bundle and it was the main AIM command Pro harness that went from the Raven rate controller ICU near the pump all the way to the back control box. So it became my prime suspect.

Long story short, the wiring harness must have still had some breaks in the wires that intermittently either added noise or dropped out the signals. Case wanted $2600 for a new harness, which is insane! So I made up my own harness for about $50 and haven't had a pump cut out in a couple of days now, knock on wood.. Details below.

I got to thinking about some of the weird things I'd seen such as the rate hunting occasionally when speed was steady, and often times that seemed to precede a pump cutting out. With Aim turned off, I still occasionally saw rate bouncing around but the pump rarely shut off. Tracing the AIM command harness, I could see that it essentially inserts itself between the sprayer's sensors and the Raven rate controller. Most of the wires pass through from the Case harness plugs to the Raven controller without even going to the Aim Command Pro controller, but 5 wires did: The flow sensor wires, and the wires that control the hydraulic water pump (AIM calls this the "servo"). So in the AIM Command Pro harness, 5 (well 4 actually, one green wire is unused by Aim Command Pro for whatever reason) wires take these signals to the controller, and 5 wires (white striped) take them back. These 9 wires plus the main battery power wires make up the entire wiring harness. If any of these wires had a problem that could cause the symptoms I was seeing.

Thinking $2600 was insane for a new harness, I bought some 18-guage stranded multi-conductor wire from my local electrician and ran some new wire from the controller on the back to the Raven unit underneath the tank. 9 wires in all. I happened to have a supply of Deutsch connector hardware (DT and DTM, both of which are used in this harness), including the pins, which is really handy for farm machines since nearly every machine uses Deutsch connectors. I pulled the suspect wires out of the Deutsch plugs on the harness, taped them out of the way, and put my wires in their place, replacing them pin to pin with no splicing except in one case when I was short a DT female pin, and in that case I soldered them together.

A final multimeter test, a check of my notes and photos on the old wires, and plugged it all back in. And it seems to have worked. I'm much relieved.
 

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Nice work. Thanks for the update.

Friend had his AIM quit on him and they thought likely the main controller, ended up just being corrosion issue. He was relieved as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Never hurts to unplug everything, clean the plugs, and put some dielectric grease in them (or spray) to keep out the water! As part of this process we did unplug nearly everything we could find and do that. Who knows. Maybe that was the problem all along. We also worked over every ground point we could find. Somehow between all of these things we got it going. Group effort. Appreciate all the suggestions and encouraging words on here!
 
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