The Combine Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have a 24 foot larger auger header that has a bad vibration in it. Through a process of elimination it is narrowed down to the sickle. I have replaced the wobble box with no difference. The guards have about 2000 acres on them and the sickle has about 700. There are a few sections that have been bolted on but most are riveted on. This was a 500 cpm sickle so I had to change the head to the 600 cpm as this is the what this header is. The head was new when I put it on. I can not see where the bolts are hitting anything. I do not see any play in the where the head bolts to the wobble box. Any suggestions what to look for?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
I was hoping you would get some responses. My setup has a shimmy I suspected was the wobble box, but new replacement didn't improve it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,408 Posts
Our old 820 shook bad too and only thing we could find was that the pins where the arms attached underneath that allowed the head to flex were wore out, id say they were about a 3/4 - 1" pin, (haven't looked in a couple years not sure exact size)

Does an 810 head have anything like that? When ours shook the whole sickle seemed to move separate from the rest of the head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So I finally got the header to the shop and started looking at it today. Actually found several issues. Several guards were tipped up on one point. The hold downs for the most part were not doing there job. I replaced the sickle with a new one. Guards have nice sharp edges yet so left them alone but did bend points into alignment. I spent a fair amount of time adjusting before I pulled the old sickle and when I pushed the new one in, it went full length without any issues. The one thing that I notice and guess I either need to find another head to look at or talk to the IH service department is when the wobble box is at the end of stroke going either direction as it reverses there is about 1 inch of free travel on the pulley before it takes up slack and moves again. Not sure if that is normal or the cause of the problem. I can see where a tight sickle would compound that problem. Turning the pulley if not connected to the sickle everything feels smooth. I have not set the head onto the machine and run it under power yet. That will be the true test I guess. The 810 is a ridged head so different than a 820 in that respect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Looking through the parts book I notice there are different mounting brackets for a 500 verse 600 cpm wobble box. Does anyone here know what the difference is? I know there is a difference in the knife heads. What was the serial number break when they went to the 600 wobble box. Just looking for other things that could have gotten mixed up over the years.

I would have thought that IH would have just changed the pulley to change the speed and would have been done with it but that sure is not the case.

This head is in the 50k number range if I remember correctly. It is a larger auger head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So finished harvest. Went through 2 sickles which broke just past where the head mounts and one wobble box. Found that the support bracket that the wobble box mounts to was cracked in a weld and the end panel for the header was cracked also. Still seems to have more vibration than it should. I may have finally discoverd the root cause of this issue tonight while working on the header before it goes in the shed for winter. This is where I need the thoughts of some others. The parts book for a 810 shows there was 2 different wobble box speeds used. 500 and 600 strokes/minute. This one is 600. When IH made the 1460 into a hillside machine they chose to drive the header with a hyduarlic motor. They also installed a flow control valve in that system so one could change the speed of the head. I put a tachometer on the wobble box and it was turning at 900 spm. So I adjusted the speed of the head down to 600 spm on the wobble box. I have a couple of loose bolts again on this wobble box that I need to tighten and replace and then I will connect it back to the sickle. The other thing that I noticed is the auger seems much happier at this speed as the bounce that was in it seems to be gone now. I have a feeling the head was just so over speeded that it was always shaking itself apart. Anyone care to add their thoughts about the speed one should sit this at? I could find nothing in the service manual about this and the owners manual for the combine just talks about the fact you could change the speed of the head with the flow control valve but does not say anything about what speed it should be sit at. Does anyone know where I could find a support bracket and end panel? They are no longer in the parts system and I have not had any luck with the salvage yards either. May have to see if I can have them made using what I have as patterns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,073 Posts
I think that breaking the sicle heads off is telling me that there is some slop either in the wobble box or in the connection to the knife . There should be no looseness or slop at all as this will just hammer everything apart .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
More of an update. I pulled the left end panels off the header. The bearing for the auger was spinning in the flangetts and they were both broke. That was all new about 300 hours ago. The left panel is cracked where that bearing mounts. It is also broke at the bottom edge from the front edge back just past where the support plate for the wobble box mounts. The wobble box that I had on there was the style where the lower pin goes completly through the needle bearing. Discovered that the pin is now loose in the arm. The front mount bracket for the wobble box now has a crack in it. This wobble box had been on the head for about 35 hours cutting time at the most. I had welded the lower flange of the panel when I had the first wobble box that was distroyed this summer off. These other issues showed up in the last 35 hours. Talked with a tech at the local dealership and he did find a rpm sitting for the feeder house jackshaft which was 500 rpm. That would make sense as the pulley that drives the wobble box is 10 1/4 inch and the 500 stoke/minute wobble box pulley was also 10 1/4 inch. A one to one ratio. The 600 stoke/minute wobble box pulley had the grove cut much lower in the pulley to get the extra speed. Putting a tach at the wobble box and dialing in the speed of 600 should have the header now running at the speed it was designed for. If my calculations were correct the auger was turning over at about 240 rpm and according to the parts book the standard sprocket sitting produced a speed of 160 rpm. Marshall I agree with you about the slop and now I think I know why. Running 50 percent faster than designed was just shaking everything to death. I have tried Worthington Ag, All State, Abileen Machine, and a couple of local yards that I know of and not a one seems to have parts for a large auger 810 header. So I am going to take the parts in to a local metal shop and see if they can make them. Not sure if I can get blue prints from Case or not but I am sure that would help. If I run into a dead end there then I may have to upgrade to a 1010.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
1470 you might want to call Barnes Welding and machine here in Waterville 509-745-8588. They have worked on dozens of these headers and might be able to help you. We still run a 810 small auger head on our 1470 and it works really well but it has been beefed up over the years. We had a 810 big auger head but it seemed to give us way more trouble. We have a parts 810 head as well but also small auger so most stuff is different than the big auger head. Both ends of the header have been plated and reinforced so the bearing mounts don't break out. The slop in your wobble box is what broke the mounts and the sickles. I am pretty sure you can still get new boxes for those headers, and there are maybe a few guys left around that can rebuild one that will last. The plate under the wobble box mounts that comes out of the left frame of the header is probably broke as well. We welded ours many times but finally replaced it, but don't know if it is still available. The 1010 header is better but the single drive ones are getting hard to come by. Hope this helps any other questions just ask. Hope the crop was alright ours sucked, at least football is back GO HAWKS!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
2388H thanks for the suggestion as I had not thought about Dave maybe being able to do something with the end pieces. I had him rebuild the auger a couple of years ago. I have been dealing with this issues since I have owned the machine and I can tell the previous owner has too. The left end of the header has been beefed up. When I talked to the tech he said most of the flow dividers were sit at about #4 and this one was sit at #8. So not sure who might have cranked it up in the past and guess it really does not make any difference at this point in time. And your correct the plate that comes out from under the header has been welded twice now that I know of. I will try and give Dave a call in the morning and see what he thinks. Really am wondering if I want to continue with this header or upgrade to a 1010. Most all the parts seem to be no longer available through Case. Lates price for fingers for the auger are like $21.00 apiece which is very crazy.

Yields here were average for the most part. Test weights were low. I have had #1,2, and 3 wheat. Waiting on grades on barley. Canola was #1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,073 Posts
Am just wondering if a oil bath wobble box from a 1010 header would be a good idea for your header ?? The only thing might be that the belt could be running backwards . had that issue with a 1010 open box found a box off a 810 for our header and put it on only to have the pulley fall off as it was right hand thread and the newer ones are left hand thread .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Not sure that would work as it seems like all the 1010's that I have ever looked at the pulley is on the outside of the header and the 810 it is to the inside. Will have to look into that some more. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top