The Combine Forum banner
Cancel

9600 black smoke during boost..Normal???

5960 Views 11 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  kscutter, 
K
First off, I really enjoy reading the posts on this site. Very helpful and informative. I upgraded to a 9600 last harvest (previous machine was a 8820) and was wondering if anyone else has experienced the subject condition. I do not really notice the extra smoke until I get into some soft ground. The smoke is black so I think it is just extra fuel injected during these loading conditions. Like I said, this is the first year with machine. It has 2609 engine hours and is an earlier combine manufactured in 1991. One thing to note, I had the winter inspection done last year and the JD mech. noted that the air-to-air cooler was partially matted over. Maybe one solution would be to correct this condition to decrease air temps to cylinders.

Thanks for any advice.


PS. next week the machine is on it way to JD for a rear main seal replacement and engine to gear case coupler.
See less See more
2
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
D
Sir You MUST change the input shaft seal on the main gearcase too when you have the two split for drive coupling and engine rear mainseal change. I had a problem with the seal on input shaft of gearcase in my early 9600 and the hydraulic oil wiped out the couplers rubber compound from oil saturation. As of 2002 deere did not have an updated seal for the gearcase and when I removed the old one it was evident that heat transfer inside the bell housing from the engine caused the seal to become brittle and crack. It was a huge headache until I had a chance to fix it and when I did I did as well change the engine rear main seal. Hydraulic oil was coming into the engine crankcase and showing overfull after about a week of running. When pulling the manual crank plug and timing pin plug next to the oil pressure sender I found the problem quickly when Hydraulic oil ran out the holes from inside the bell housing, then I knew where the gearcase oil was going as well.
As far as the smoke? Make sure all the filters are new NOT CLEAN BUT NEW, inner and outer air filters, fuel filter, tank screen, sediment bowl. Also some other things in question,,,, is the fuel fresh? Is the engine oil Fresh? If you smell a raw or unburnt rich fuel smell when engine is at idle then your injector opening pressures are too low due to wear and need to be tested, rebuilt, or pressures reset. I would also get ahold of enough SEA FOAM brand injector cleaner and run it through a complete tank at recommended strength to help clean up the injection pump internals, especially at that stage in the engines life. May want to think about running the valves too. What kind of OIl do you run in the hydraulics and engine? Good luck and let me know if ive just confused you further.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
ralf
If your combine goes in for repair work anyway, they should be able to tell you about the smoke, too. It could be a cracked aftercooler. That leads to pressure loss and less air for the engine and power loss.
A plugged aftercooler would lead to power loss, too. Because the air temperature is higher than should be. But the engine compensates for that and injects less fuel, if things work the way they should.
Reply
Save
Like
K
Thanks for the replies and the suggestions. The black smoke is not severe but I feel it slightly more than a usual JD engine makes. Then again, I do not have much experience with the electronic fuel controls. The engine has good power and I can feel when the boost comes in. All the air and fuel filters were replaced before harvest. It is worth checking for leaks in the charge air system though. Also good tip on the fuel system cleaning and valve adjustments considering the machines age and hours.

The engine gear case job will include any seals and parts replaced while it is split. I am not one that would risk it. The oil in the gear case is the JD low vis hydraulic oil. I have heard that you can upgrade the input shaft, seals, and coupler to the 9650 series for about another $200 in parts. The biggest advantage I see would be the cost comparison of the coupler drives as the 50 series is half the cost.
Has anyone heard of this or may have done this?...any additional advantages..ie, reliability, longevity...?

Thanks again for the replies.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
4
How is the oil consumtion? Could check both sides of the turbo see if the seals could be going.
Reply
Save
Like
D
The late serial number 9650s used a different coupling but only in conjuction with their later flywheel too. Early 9650 couplings and flywheels are the same. Coupling on early and late are the same cost. Theres nothing wrong with the stock 9600 coupling as long as you can keep the oil off of it.
Reply
Save
Like
K
Thanks davedan. I will go back with the stock parts.

4710driver - the turbo seals are good, oil consumption is little to none (mostly from leaking main seal).

Machine is at JD shop now and JD mechanic's quick visual says that the inj. pump appears to have been rebuilt recently and may have been turned up some for more fuel during boost making the extra smoke. Mechanic will further check the system out after the gear case job is done.
Reply
Save
Like
D
Do you smell raw fuel when the engine is idleing, maybe when standing up on platform? Is there smoke at Idle? I would say pull the injectors and test the pressures. Poor maintainance of fuel system and filters or cheap fuel causes premature wear on injectors and the pressures only hold for a couple thousand hours.
Im curious what kind of engine oil are you running?
I kind of doubt that the pump was setup different than what the tag tells the technician to set it up as when he has it on the stand. Also remember that this pump is ECM controlled.
Reply
Save
Like
K
No raw fuel smell or smoke at idle. Engine oil is a top quality 15w40 that I have used in 20 series, hundred series combines, 9100 thru 4010 tractors for the last 20 years without any engine failures. I can honestly say it is not the engine oil. I have not heard back from the JD tech. on the fuel system check as the gearcase is separated from the engine. I am also leaning towards the injectors not holding pressures. If there is no mechanical adjustments to this pump, would there be some type of a performance chip installed? I am also wondering about this ultra low fuel diesel affects on these older fuel systems. They started refining this post harvest of 06 in this area, so this combine has not burned this fuel yet.
Thanks for the replies.
Reply
Save
Like
gibbons025
KScutter, the earlier models I have worked with have always smoked when the boost is kicked in. In those year models those things will smoke like a older gleaner.
Reply
Save
Like
G
Good chance you have a couple weak or dribbly injectors. I've replaced quite a few injectors on higher hour 9600's in order to cure smokey or rough running. If you read your op. manual it'll actually tell you to get your injectors tested every 2000hrs. Air leak after turbo a good possibility too. Put someone in the engine compartment when it's under load to listen for a leak. Trust me, you'll hear it if there is one. Oh, and when you pull your injectors out, do a quick compression check just to make sure the engine is in good shape.
Reply
Save
Like
K
Just to follow up with the findings, the fuel system checked out fine with no injector problems. gibbons025 you nailed it.

Thanks for all the replies.

PS. The gear case is back together with all seals replaced including the chopper drive end bearing, pilot bearing (which was nearly locked up) and the drive coupler that was showing major signs of deterioration from the oil leaks.
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
The Combine Forum
A forum community dedicated to all combine owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about specifications, accessories, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
John Deere Tractors Planting & Tillage Case IH Crop Production
Top