The Combine Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

New on here but have been trolling around for a month or so, learning a lot. Quick background, we farm about 1300 acres around Edmonton, AB and are all Green. We have a 7720 Turbo, bought a 9610 last year after purchasing more land. Excellent shape, shedded, 1100 hours, Greenlighted (so basically the combine should have no issues in relation to harvesting functions).

Anyway, after putting the crop in this spring I have noticed that ALL my wheat fields from last year look as though they were seeded! I am stunned that our 9610 threw over THAT MUCH, and I'll fuming over the job it did. It was set according to specs, Grain Loss monitor working (until the end of the season anyway), quick check with the shovel when first setting up, everything seemed good. Used a 930R, going 3-3.5 mph in 75-80 bu/ac CPS Wheat.

So I hear over and over again that these combines are notorious for throwing over the walkers, however when it comes to the seives and fan I am hoping there's also room for improvement. Basically I'm looking for tips on setting these things up for wheat. It a G-Damn embarrassment the job this combine did last year. I'll try a few things this fall to make it better, but if there's no substantial improvement I'm looking towards a Lexion (color-match be damned).

First off, is it at all possible to set the 96XX for wheat, or are my fields always going to be greener than the next in the spring. Second, what mods/set-ups should I do to get there (or close to it)? Assume that I had the combine set as close as possible last fall (the wheat samples were just a tad dirty, cylinder set tight and fairly fast - to the point that no damage was occurring to sample but borderline).

From reading on here, I am considering the following:

-set the back end up by bigger tires or adjusting axle (how much higher, 5" higher than stock or even more?)

-Install a beater speed-up kit (JD slow down kit reversed)

From personal experience, I am considering the following:

-Airfoil top sieve

What else can I do to get this thing tuned in? Where are the trouble spots on these combines, is it the walkers or is it the cylinder style, feed-through, etc. Is is a problem that will never really be solved? Either way right now I've got a hate-on for this combine, I'l give it one more year and do what needs to be done to tune it, but if still same results its going down the road.

Please help guys! (thanks)

Andy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
620 Posts
JD walkers are known for throwing over in wheat on the walkers and it does not show on the loss monitors either. Rear end elevation will help but not solve issue, additional risers will help but again not solve the issue. The Maximizers are worse than the old Titan II series and sounds like you are experiencing this first hand.
9610's have lots of through put capacity in wheat as far as threshing and can easily over load the separating and cleaning systems. System capacity isn't matched from front to back. If you pull back on the stick far enough to eliminate the walker losses to a manageable level you will start to see threshing issues since now that part of the system isn't full.
There is a reason JD now builds rotary combines and has a separation drum over their new walker machines.
You might be sending it down the road sooner than later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,118 Posts
What were the conditions you were harvesting in? Are you sure it's the combine and not head shatter? Not making excuses for the combine as it well could have been the combine, but have you considered the other variable?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
It was a very good and dry fall last year. I really can't see head shatter because it was for the most part straight cut, everything cut went straight into the feeder house, seems unlikely to me. Moisture was in the 10-11 range.

Don't get me wrong, I am a die-hard Deere guy, three generations and not a single piece of motorized equipment has been non-Green (until I bought a Challenger 45 this spring due to extremely good price at an auction sale - broke my Dad's heart!), however even though I'll give Deere the first crack at any piece of equipment I expect the best product possible for my given dollar.

Bascally, I need the Deere guys with experience with these combines to let me in their secrets, I also want to find out the obvious (walkers) and not so obvious weak points in these combines. As well, any of the guys out there that have switched over to another color or know of the problems these machines have is also appreciated. Because Deere go for a premium, I expect they should be top quality - no doubt the reliability has been superb, however if there is an unmanageable weak point in the threshing process farm profit margins will not allow me to look the other way to keep Green.

So what are the suggestions? Any tips or mods of the existing combine, or any suggestions for a trade-in? Walker, rotary, or hybrid are all open, however we still keep a few cows thus the leaning towards a walker or hybrid. When making this decision, it was between this 9610 in excellent shape and a 9760 in slightly lower condition. My price range was (and IS if need be) in the $80,000 - $140,000 range. I really like the Lexions and they are very affordable, however service is in question given their history. The NH conventionals seem to be monsters and can be had for cheaper than a compareable Deere, however neighbors seem to have a lot of little problems, electrical, etc. I have never been too keen on the CaseIH rotarys, neither the Masseys. Gleaner I feel are a different animal altogether, not sure if I'm ready for that big of a change...

Either way, throw anything out there for me, drove past a few fields again this morning and got mad again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
590 Posts
Did you ever stop and get out of the cab and check what was on the ground behind you?

We have run maximizers for the last 16 years in wheat and have not had green carpets. If set right and run right, you should not have the issue.

But, it sounds like you may be past the point of no return, so go get a lexion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
590 Posts
And, yes, you should have a 5-10 degree lift on the back of the machine by proper tire or axle matchng. Our sit up in back. So, if yours is running flat, you may want to look at a different tire/wheel set up. The maximizers don't have the walker angle the titans did. That will help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,979 Posts
Since you are straight cutting a 2388 would be a good trade. I don't have experience first hand with the JD walkers, but i cut next to alot of them, they just aren't beside me for very long
It seems like to get walker loss down to an acceptable level in those kinds of crops you will be doing 2.5 ish. The rotaries actually tend to put less on the ground when you push them harder because the rotor pressure increases squeazing the grain out. My 2188 can generally run 5mph in 50bpa wheat (the best i've had it in so far).

The biggest weak spots of the CaseIH rotaries (yes i'll admit there are some) are rotor belts that can explode, and the chaffer bushings. The 2388 has a beefier belt the the previous models and has mostly fixed this issue. To help with rotor belt life there are after market rotors that use less hp they are available from pfparts.com and bisonrotor.com Pfparts also makes a discharge beater that replaces the cheesy one that case makes if you don't have a chopper, they also have tonns of parts for your 9610 if you call Mike i'm sure he can help you out. Also there is a kit called the Kile rotor flight kit, it costs 1000 and is supposed to help make belts last longer and increase ground speed, once again no personal experience with these mods but most people seem very satisfied. Also a draper header feeds smoother thus putting less strain on the rotor and rotor drives.

The most positive aspect of the axial flow is the simplicity, it is very easy to work on when you do have to...it will leave you scratching your head wondering where all the parts went if you park it next to your maximizer and compare.

For cereals i hear great things about the Lexions, it comes down to dealers in your area. The Axial flow would really break your dads heart when he sees how much better it does straight cutting wheat, it might be more of a dead when picking up, they don't like tons of straw. Anyway best of luck to ya no matter what you choose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,244 Posts
Quote:Posted by tractor8100 on Today at 5:10pm
Did you ever stop and get out of the cab and check what was on the ground behind you?


Excellent point. No offense intended, but if you just set the combine up by the book and proceeded to harvest without checking you only have yourself to blame. The book settings are a guide on where to start, not where to stop. And if you did check, I would find it very hard to believe that amount of grain could be missed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,800 Posts
9600's are great corn combines but not to impressive in cereals. From what I've seen in fields is that barley is worse than wheat. We went from CX walker machines to lexions a few years ago for the same reason and others as well. Saving grain is no longer an issue, a city kid could set lexion with no problems. If you have a good dealer in your area you should give one a try. I also have to agree with bundybear that book settings on any machine aren't worh even looking at but in 70-80 bpa wheat with lots of straw you can't expect to push a walker machine, no matter how high you jack the back end, without some serious losses.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
We use the book as the starting point, as I stated, we caught samples with the shovel from the sieve off the bat to dial the combine in, and ended up setting the combine just a little dirty in the tank (to save ALL kernals) and a fairly tight cylinder. By no means were we setting it blindly by the book settings, we know how to set a combine up... (usually, did not work last fall on this combine)

SO either way, I was told by the dealership that it could be an issue with the plate setup, it'll be going in for Greenlight later in the summer, I'll give them a chance to set it up mechanically the way they think it should be set. As well I'll raise the back up as much as possible and see if that'll dial it in better. Speeding up the beater seems like a cheap increase in capacity, and I'll wait on the airfoil for another year and see if anything will help with walker throw-over as opposed to making a simpler sieve set-up. Lastly we'll need to inspect the straw some more and see if there's any clues it that end of it. If little or no improvement its time to look at other options, hard to have an odd colour though...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
We bought a 9600 w/1300 sep hrs. 1.5 years ago. The front bars of the concave were rounded badly. For wheat harvest last year we installed a JD Heavy Duty concave (Sunnybrook). It's different in that it has a true to circle shape and weighs about 100# more than a std. Deere. We run a 930F header and ran 80 - 100 bushel wheat at 3.2 - 3.7 mph with minimal loss. Moisture at 13.0-13.5%. I would have to say that the biggest share of the volunteer wheat that emerged was from a hail storm pre-harvest and the fungicide applicators wheel tracks. The concave worked really nice. Clean, no white caps, no damage. Is your concave showing signs of wear? I've always been amazed how much better a combine will work and how much easier it is to set after installing a new one. Just my two cents. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,118 Posts
Check your Concave, Bars, & get a Beater Speed Up Kit & the walker risers, and see how it perfroms. I know sometimes the bars etc. all look good until you actually put a gauge on them and see how warn they really are, or maybe look aftermarket if you think Deere's designs isn't working. The 9600's & 9610's were/are a good machine, still lots of them around.

It's about what fits your operation, no matter what we say it's your dollars and your farm.

Let us know what you findo out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,200 Posts
Pouinthecoal. Last year every light kernal that went out the back germinated this spring. Also remember a bushel an acre loss on 30' is over 40 seeds per sq foot. when choked down to feeder house width. Unless you are on some other planet you only seed wheat at 20-25 seeds a sq foot. and thats spread out over the whole width of the drill not squeezed down into a windrow.

Don't get too upset because of the "green mat" relize what it is and instead of trying to save the last two bushels put more effort into growing more of them. It always amazes me how much time and effort guys put into their 'bine yet they won't or don't effort a little more on the seediing/spraying side of things. There is way more opportunity for increased yeild/profit by doing things at seeding/spraying time then trying to save a bushel or two and stressing about it at 'bining time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Here are some pretty easy steps you can do to this machine to improve the grain loss on this machine----On right side of machine the concave comes from factory with cast iron lock on adjusting bolt, take it out and pull concave all the way up at top back toward front of machine. Be sure and lower concave with switch in cab first so cylinder bars dont hit concave after adjusting. This will throw more grain on sieves and less on walkers.-----Raise beater grate to upper position to help in seperation of heavy straw----Add at least 4 risers per strawwalker to increase turn over of material from front to back.These combines usually have some mounted on side of walker from factory, but you need the ones that mount in center of walker to keep material from laying flat as it rides to the back.----Deere offers a steel curtain that replaces rubber curtain above straw walkers. What happens in heavy straw is the material is so thick the rubber ones stay raised up most of time and allows grain from beater to be thrown too far to rear of walker and then it rides out back of machine while laying on top of material. The 20 series combines had motor in front and 9000 series moved motor to rear and in doing this, Deere had to change pitch of walkers to allow material to flow between walker and motor housing which allows less of a steep grade.-----By raising tail of machine up higher, you not only help walkers seperate but you also help sieves too. Raise tail-end to upper bolt pattern in axle and put at least 28x26 rear tires on machine. It will look like it is going down hill, but this is what you need to increase overall seperation productivity.-----We have not seen much difference with sped up beater kit because it only helps if you are choking your beater down and it really only increases the inertia of beater to stop plugging. We have found that a sped up beater throws grain from beater further to rear of walkers and reduces the amount of time grain has to seperate before it reaches tail-end.----You will not get much more than 3.5 ground speed with the kind of yields you have , but you wont have any grain loss either. We experienced the same problems in 89 when these machines were introduced when we tried to cut rice and made these adjustments to make machine operate more affective. The saying around here is If it will cut rice it will cut anything. These are simple and cost effective steps you can do and increase machine performance tremendously. The other trick is to run cylinder as slow as possible and concave as tight as possible. This keeps grain on sieves and reduces throw of grain from beater. You will see a big difference in this machine if these steps are followed. Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
778 Posts
If the combine was Greenlighted regularly I assume the concave and bars are in good shape. For wheat you should be running some kind of filler plates on the front few rows of the concave and be sure your beater grate is in the raised position. It would be good to know if your losses came from sieve or walkers, but walkers is more common. The airfoil chaffer will not necessarily help. It's just makes the combine easier to set. A 9610 has alot of capacity on the sieve. The total sq/in in relation to the size/class of combine is significant.

There's lots of potential in a 9610. For a quick, cheap gain in capacity do the Deere beater speed up kit (BH78623), pull every second wire on the Deere concave, and install a PF prethesher feed plate. If you want to take it to the max, add the PF hi-inertia cylinder, beater, 60% speed up, and a 20% power chip as well. I've sold and installed several of these kits and performance jumps roughly 35-40% with much more controllable walker loss.

It's critical to be sure the concave is square to the cylinder and able to close tight before the concave stop touches. Do NOT trust your concave indicator on the cornerpost. Physically verify the gap at all 4 inspection holes.

There are a lot of happy 9610 owners and there's no reason you can't be too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
590 Posts
I opened it (precleaner) a little bit yesterday, and I think I gained .5 MPH. I am watching the losses on the ground and matching it to the Harvestrak, (only finding .5-1 kernels per sq ft), cutting HRW (blended varieties), yield 45-50. Running 850 +/- cylinder speed and concave as closed as possible before cracking.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Thank-you kindly for all the replies guys. The tips and solutions listed here range quite a bit but do follow the same pattern of keeping straw separated on the walkers and keep it there longer, ensure the cylinder is doing its job properly. The combine was picked up for Greenlight last week, should be in the shop in the next few weeks. Cutncrop and Greentech have brought up the internal tips I was looking for, I am sure the combine is like new for wear on cylinder and concaves, So installing a Sunnybrook concave/cylinder is not preferred at this point until it sees more wear. I will follow the recommedation of a prethreasher feeder plate, what brand is suggested? I will add risers to the walkers, and adjust the concave as was suggested by cutncrop. After it get back from Greenlight I can have a little fun setting this this up. After these replies it seems like all it takes is getting more familiar with it and use some of these tricks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
As much as I would like it to be a Deere problem, I noticed alot of volunteer wheat in ours too this spring. We were running a conventional Massey and even srpayed round up in the fall, but had to do it early since I was putting in tile, stayed dry for a while and then the smaller berries germinated late. I had to hit all the wheat stubble with the disk the first time over to try and cut it up some. Wheat averaged 92 an acre, but I wonder how much went out the back?? The neighbor I help had the same problem with his 2366, as did some of the other guys no matter what color. Just seemed like there were a lot of smaller light berries last fall and every one of them germinated. Hope you have better luck this year though!
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top