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Discussion Starter #1
We just purchased a JD 9650STS this past spring so we are new to troubleshooting it, so any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

The day the combine was delivered, that evening we were putting the machine away in the barn and I was testing the A/C, lights, and other "cool" gadgets. Machine was idling and the engine just died as if I shut it off. I turned the key off and then restarted the machine with no problems.
This past Saturday I had backed it out of the barn to access the planter. I let it run for about 5 minutes, then my wife and I took it for a quick 1 to 2 minute spin around the front field (as it was her first time to drive it). My wife got out to help guide me in the barn and I hadn't pulled 15 to 20 feet forward when it died. The engine stopped, no electrical functions were on, and it wouldn't restart/crank. No buzzer, no instrument lights, no CommandTouch info on the corner post, no radio, A/C...flat nothing no matter how many times I turned the key on and off!! Drove back home to get the manuals and returned about 10 minutes later. Turned the key and heard the normal beeps, A/C came back on, and CommandTouch was back, so I went ahead and started the machine and parked it for the night.

I am at a loss as to what is causing this. Obviously I want to have it resolved before harvest. I hate to move it between farms as I fear it might stop right in the middle of the road. I have noted something that seems odd to me, but I don't know if it is normal or not. If I have the lights on, I notice the interior lights (especially on the CommandTouch corner post) to vary in brightness. If I turn the A/C on or move the feeder house height/tilt the lights will vary in brightness also.

I have read some posts on fuel problems (filters/plugged lines, etc) but my gut feeling is that this is electrical being the machine appeared to be electrically dead Saturday night. Batteries test good, connections are clean/solid, and I verified that the extra wire that Deere refers to for the 95Amp vs 185 Amp alternator is OK. (I have the 95 amp as it uses the field wire) http://www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesup....s-running.html#


I also made sure the ground strap for frame/cab was making good bare metal to bare metal contact before this last episode...but obviously that was not the problem.

I know there are some very experienced folks on this forum, so I am hoping you can help out the new guy.
 

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probably a weak breaker that should be easily pin pointed by your nearest service department.. Just my 2 cents...
Disclaimer - I am in no way any sort of electrical guru, however i seem to get the job done most days
 

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and the breakers and fuses are locate in the panel beside the fuel tank in the engine compartment right next to the hydraulic oil resevoir if i remember correctly.
 

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if it is an older 50 series, it has the breakers you refer to, 00, or 01,

if it is a 02 or 03 it uses relays instead of breakers
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The combine is a 2001 and does have the breakers and 3 relays on the back panel (engine compartment next to fuel fill). I attempted Monday to get the machine to die again, but running the A/C, lights, header controls, and etc for an extended period of time, I could not cause the machine to die.
I was looking in the Operator's manual and there are two breakers I might suspect; one (F7) is for "control circuit power" and the other is (F5) "ignition system power". The manual notes that two of the large relays (K1-A/C system relay & K3-Run Relay) are controlled by the ignition switch. When the combine died Saturday, I lost everything in the cab, including the A/C so I am wondering if the F5 "ignition system power" breaker might be the source. My concern is if it were the F5 breaker...why would it be opening up...possible short...bad board...or what?
I also noted in the manual that power distribution board #1 in the Central Electronics Box has a relay associated with engine running power (K12) and one for panel lamps (K6). Maybe one or more of these has some burnt contacts. I have ordered a Tech Manual to hopefully trace out the circuits so as to better pinpoint the source.
One thing that struck me as odd yesterday (Monday) was that the corner post back-lights would fluctuate in brightness almost continuously when the work/field lights are on. If I cycled the A/C or header controls the corner post back-lights would change very noticeably. (I checked the dimmer control and it is not flaky and doesn't have any bad spots) The main lights (field, work, cab light above seat, etc) would never blink/dim even the slightest amount. I checked the voltage at the auxiliary powerstrip during this time and it was rock solid. Could this be pointing me toward the source? Until I have a wiring schematic, it is kind of shooting in to the air trying to find the source.

jdgreen or ststech...have either one of you seen or replaced a weak breaker on one of these machines in your past? Is one position more susceptible than another? I seen on Deere's website they had some problems with electrical components that were made in Portugal.

Thanks,
planterman
 

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Check the battery voltage and alternator charging capability.

Our experience with this on our 9650STS was in the dealer's yard after we'd just spent many days working on the machine and were ready to drive it home. I 1st lost the AC, then the lights and hydraulics and then all the instrumentation before the engine died while the mech. was "chasing" power (it will with low voltage). The mech. was stumped so we checked the brand new batteries which were down to 5.x? volts or so. As it turned out, the alternator was DISCHARGING the batteries...basically acting as a electric motor and trying to turn on the belt but there is so much airflow that the alternator never got hot. Sooo...we replaced the alternator and swapped out the batteries for new again and the problem was solved. We've seen this alternator problem before but the mech. had forgotten that type of thing can happen.

Low voltage and/or a bad charging system can do screwy things to electronics.

Best of luck and I hope this helps.
 

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I had a similar problem with a JD CTS.
Found the breaker for the fuel system to be weak.
It took a while to diagnose because on hot days the engine would die numerous times under load and would not on cooler days or nites.
Breaker was effected by the ambient temp.close to the engine.
It was a very cheap and quick fix but took a while to figure out.
I first thought engine was running out of fuel or air under heavy load so replaced fuel,air filters,fuel lines from tank to filter hsg.,flushed fuel tank etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Appreciate the help thus far. DeereJohn you mentioned you had a similar problem on a CTS machine and found it to be the breaker for the fuel system. Where is that located, or is the CTS different enough from a STS that it doesn't apply. I didn't find anything in the manual that mentioned a breaker associated with the fuel system. The first time the machine died it was cool out, and the second time it was very warm. Both times I was just idling or half speed for short durations with basically no load, so I wouldn't think this is the problem. Did you lose cab instrument lights, cab blower, radio, etc when your machine stopped or did the engine just die?

Tom...I did check the positive battery cable and it appears to be good. The voltage on the bus bar for the breakers & relays stayed rock solid when I tested it Monday. I even tried to move the wire around some while under load to see if I could see voltage fluctuation, but it was steady. I even measured differential voltage between + battery terminal and bus bar to see if I had any voltage drop under load due to corrosion, bad connections, or cable that was limiting current. No voltage drop from battery to breaker/bus bar connections.

I plan to work on it this weekend if we keep having these rains
and can't plant anything. Trying to have a couple ideas in store so that I can maybe make some progress.

Any other suggestions are welcomed.
Thanks,
Planterman
 

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The fuel system breaker is in the panel behind the engine,near the hyd. tank. The computer board is also in this panel.
We did not lose lites,A/C,etc. when engine died.
This happened about 5 yrs. ago and we have since traded the CTS and CTS2 off for a 9870 but if I remember right there was more than 1 breaker in the panel.
I,m wondering if there is a breaker before the computer board that is tripping?
 

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Ive had your problem before a couple of times on a '60 series combine.

Every time it was a board that had periodicly difficulties. Can't remember wich on it was though, but it was on the left hand side, behind that little door next to the cab. I belive its called the left hand control unit.

A number of symptoms showed up every time that thing stopped working. Hydralics would stop working, The engine would cut out, for a second, or it would die completely like you described. It cant really be diagnosed, because technicly there is nothing wrong with your boards, they just stop working every now and then. Unfortunatly the only way to get rid of the problem is to replace that unit, which i belive is about 1200 dollars
 

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Well lets not over look the simple stuff, have had several 50-60 series have the harness fall off the key switch, this will cause the very same thing you've mentioned. Believed the issue to be too tight of harness routing, when the steering column is tilted it pulls off harness,beyond that , remove all your grounds , clean them, put star washers between wire loops and the frame, there are at least 8 grnd points. goodluck.deerefever.
 

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Can I ask the simple question here? Did you buy from an individual or dealership?

If it was a dealership my first call would have been to them. I am sure that any good dealership would not want this to be your first experience with this combine.
 

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When it does that and you turn the key and nothing comes back on try honking the horn....If this works I would double check the grounds under the cab and under the floor in the left hand corner. I had a 9750 that did that. Someone had a water jug that leaked into the corner and got the grounds rusty. I cleaned it up and didnt do it again.
 

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rubberduck is on the right track. There is half a dozen relays on that board, it sounds like the ignition one, change them. As for the backlighting, Shift your switch to the mid position, this can sometimes fix that.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well I believe the problem is resolved.
On the relay/breaker panel located in the engine compartment I found that the "F7-Control Circuit Power Breaker" had a small crack in it near the one terminal stud. It was slightly discolored near this point also. I changed this breaker, the "F5-Ignition System Breaker", and "F9-Engine Control Unit Circuit Breaker". The F5 and F9 were probably not necessary, but I don't want to take any chances during fall harvest. I took the F7 breaker to work and we tested it in the electrical shop and found that it would open around 15A DC @12V supply. Considering it was a 50A, that is not good. I don't know what the typically draw on this breaker is, but obviously it appeared weak. Upon re-closing it sometimes would have a couple ohms of resistance so I would say the contacts were burnt also causing some voltage drop.

Next I went up to the Central Electronics Box to see if there was dirt, water, etc that might cause any problems. The box was dry and clean, but when I was pulling it out I noticed something wrong.
The bottom plug on Power Distribution Board #1 was severely angled in the socket. The bottom corner of the plug was fully in the socket, but the upper portion was just crammed against the pins. The center fastening screw was tight, and that probably explains why the top portion of the socket was broke off and the upper 4 pins or so on the board were bent. (I hate to think it left the factory like this...but I bet it did) I very carefully straightened these and installed the plug properly in the socket. Once I had all the boards back in, the breakers changed out, and the battery cables back on, I could not get the machine to die like before and the cab lights didn't flicker when I cycled heavy electrical loads.

A couple posts commented about the grounds being good. I had already performed these tasks back at the engine compartment, left frame, right frame, and under cab after the first time it died. I had read posts before regarding this, and it was a simple thing to do before troubleshooting too far. I wish it would have been that simple, but obviously it was not.

Appreciate the input everyone had and hope this post helps some others.

Planterman
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I thought I should follow up to my last post back in June, as I recently had the machine die once again and the cab was "dead" like before. I remembered deerefever commenting about the wiring harness in the steering column. Checked that, wiring harness was good, had voltage at appropriate places when switching on, so I was temporarily stumped.
Next, my dad came out to the barn and said he could here a faint click when I turned the key. I grabbed my test meter and quickly headed up to the motor platform. Dad would turn the key and I could hear the "K3 Run Relay" click. Voltage on the line side was 12+ volts as it normally should be, the coil voltage was good, but the load side voltage of the relay would range from 0.5 to 4 volts depending on on the time the key-switch was triggered. Before the problem would come then go away, but at least this time the problem was staying, which helped troubleshooting. I took the K3 relay out and energized it (the coil) on the bench with a battery charger several times and would measure the contact resistance between the line-to-load terminals. Best resistance was about 10 ohms and worst measurement was over 200 ohms. If one relay was bad, I figured the other two (K1 and K2) were probably not not far behind, so I checked them also. The K1 relay (for A/C) indicated some high resistance a couple times indicating it probably had burnt contacts, but the K2 relay (service lights) tested good every time. I temporarily swapped the K2 and K3 relays so I could test my conclusion, and more importantly, so I could start the machine and put it back in the barn!
After swapping the 2 relays the machine started right up. In the end, I replaced all 3 relays, as I figured it was cheap insurance. The weak breaker (F7) I found in my prior post might have been the casualty of this bad relay...as the relay was the supply source to F7 and F8 breakers. I should have checked this based on experience, but I didn't...lesson learned.
Have a safe harvest this fall,
Planterman
 
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