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Discussion Starter #1
Just had a major explosion inside the Cat 16 speed that was possibly caused by failed thrust washers. The updates were done at 1800 hrs and now the transmission has a major failure at 4400 hrs. Oil changes and filters have been done and since I have owned the tractor the filters have been cut regularly and show nothing caught in the filters. Is this normal for these transmissions? I thought these were supposed to be almost bullet proof. When it blew up it was on the road at full speed. Is there a connection there to high speed and what appears to be thrust washer failure again??? Is there any expectation of some kind of help from Mother Agco since this is a failure of an issue that was a warranty update. This is very disappointing that the component that I trusted the most of the whole tractor has had a catastrophic $$$$$$ failure. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Perhaps it would be worth a call to CAT to see if they have had any problems
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was of the understanding that the thrust washers that were updated to thrust bearings were in the differential carriers in the axels, not in the transmissions.

http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/18-tractors/11572-challenger-mt-9-b-series-2.html
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You could be correct. My info is pretty vague, but my dealer says the transmission was "rebuilt at 1800 hrs" as part of some program I believe. So what would have been done in the tranny? As far as they are in the teardown yesterday they are thinking it was thrust washers that seized that started a chain reaction of destruction.
 

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I always get concerned when I see a machine with a major component like an engine or transmission rebuilt, makes you wonder if it's ever really the same as it should have been?

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate breakdown.
 

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When our 865 was nearly new it had some sort of update like you are talking. The only difference we ever noticed was something was off cause the rear window would open about an inch then hit a fitting on the fuel tank. We ran that tractor to 3400 hours in 10 years, no tranny issues, then traded it for an 865C, speaking of which we are interested in selling, just turned 100 hours on it yesterday.
 

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I have had trouble getting warranty out of Agco when the unit is still actively "on" warranty. I wouldn't hold my breath as to Agco coming to the table. Especially if your dealer is in east central AB as mine is!!
 

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There is a high probability that somebody stuffed up, during the rebuild and shortened the life of the transmission.
Mother Agco will likely wean you off her teat at this point.
 

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I've heard of three 875b tractors in my area that have had to he same catastrophic trans failor you are talking. All three have also gone out during high speed roading.

After I heard of these I have slowed mine down on the road. I'm not sure if it's the high speed or just a quinsidence. My 875c was just in for transmissions updates. They had the whole tractor torn apart.
 

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interesting? got about 2500 hrs on and 865b bought as a demo unit, so far ours has never been touched, might need to look into this. I have never heard of one failing yet, not a lot of them out here but enough of them. I always thought the tranny was the only thing Cat could get right, I could tell ya lots of stories about junk engines, smaller ones especially, the c18 seems pretty tough as I have expected the way some guys drive there tractors around here there would be some blown up by now but just one so far, but it took a drink of water.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I've heard of three 875b tractors in my area that have had to he same catastrophic trans failor you are talking. All three have also gone out during high speed roading.

After I heard of these I have slowed mine down on the road. I'm not sure if it's the high speed or just a quinsidence. My 875c was just in for transmissions updates. They had the whole tractor torn apart.


Thanks for all the replies and sympathy!! I sold the tractor last winter though so just feel really bad for the nice young man that bought it. I do not think there was anything wrong when I sold it, and that it could have been due to the high speed roading for a long distance. I never drove it more than 12 - 15 mph pulling the drill.


What are these "transmission updates"? Anything related to thrust washers in planetaries?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Challenger 965B transmission failure

I've heard of three 875b tractors in my area that have had to he same catastrophic trans failor you are talking. All three have also gone out during high speed roading.

After I heard of these I have slowed mine down on the road. I'm not sure if it's the high speed or just a quinsidence. My 875c was just in for transmissions updates. They had the whole tractor torn apart.


Thanks for the input to this question of the Cat TA 22 16 speed transmission reliability. The end result of this one from early May was that the thrust washers on some or one planetary gear in the transmission failed at 20 MPH on the road resulting in a $50,000 work order. Agco is saying that these tractors are made to go that fast and it is not speed related. I am starting to think that it may be entirely speed related. How are those planetary gears lubricated? If it is just a splash type system and they are spinning really fast at road speeds for long periods, maybe they do not get enough oil and therefore start to get hot and eventually seize , which causes the catastrophic chain reaction of destruction. Agco does not want to talk about this type of logic. But then what are all the updates that we hear about supposed to be correcting? Why all the secrecy ? I just want to know what is causing these failures. If these tractors have a 10 mph speed limit then say so. We can't afford the cost or downtime of another failure like this spring. However Agco is saying it is not speed related so what is causing the failure. Any input would be greatly appreciated. TIA
 

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Little late

However Agco is saying it is not speed related so what is causing the failure. Any input would be greatly appreciated. TIA

Little late on this thread... Sorry ... We had a 965C transmission fail at high speed as well. Upon disassembly we found much the same issues. One of the two planetary assemblies looked like it got hot and seized the planet gear. This shattered the gear and broke the main case. Most of the issues with these transmission was software or clutch pack related. We rebuilt lots of 865B and C series transmission and differential steering units.

In answer to your question I think high speed road travel is part of the issue but not the whole... Lube pressure in these transmission is low... Meaning RPM is key to correct lubrication of transmission...

The only other thing to watch out for is over filling the transmission. It will heat and cause internal damage...
 

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Lube pressure in these transmission is low... Meaning RPM is key to correct lubrication of transmission...
Can you clarify? Do you mean engine RPM? As in run the engine at higher RPM to maintain higher lube pressures? Thanks
 

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Can you clarify? Do you mean engine RPM? As in run the engine at higher RPM to maintain higher lube pressures? Thanks
I have been told 1800rpm minimum to maintain higher transmission lube pressure. The same mechanic also told me that's what he tells the versatile owners with cat power shifts
 
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