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Almost harvest time again! Who switched the arms?
I switched mine and have been running with it in the small grains position for the past two weeks.

Overall I feel like my combine has been performing noticeable better than in previous years (and I was happy with how it performed before). Moving the arm wasn't the only change I made though so I can't say for sure how much it contributed to the improved performance. I'm sure it didn't hurt any.
 

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I was at a clinic a couple of weeks ago and this thread was brought up. There was a strong recommendation from Louis Melanson not to switch the blocks to the SG position. If I remember the story correctly it was tried and did not produce the desired results. The blocks were designed for the NH machines and never intended for the CIH machines. I believe he suggested that they will be installed backwards in the future so the letters cannot be seen on the CIH units.

Anyone else that heard a similar story can likely add to this or correct any errors I may have made. Just what I heard.
 

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I was at a clinic a couple of weeks ago and this thread was brought up. There was a strong recommendation from Louis Melanson not to switch the blocks to the SG position. If I remember the story correctly it was tried and did not produce the desired results. The blocks were designed for the NH machines and never intended for the CIH machines. I believe he suggested that they will be installed backwards in the future so the letters cannot be seen on the CIH units.

Anyone else that heard a similar story can likely add to this or correct any errors I may have made. Just what I heard.
I heard comments like that as well. I also heard it would destroy my sieves if I switched the blocks. What doesn't make sense to me is if the blocks were designed for the NH machines and the not the CIH, how can that be when the cleaning systems are identical. I even pulled up the parts manuals online and compared part numbers for the cleaning system components, everything I checked had the same parts number.
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 · (Edited)
Yeah the explanations don't make much sense to me either. The NH sieves are identical to Case in every way. The only difference in the cleaning system is the shaker pan at the front that dumps onto the sieves is sloped differently, because of the twin rotors. Any sieve settings that work on NH should also work with identical results on Case. I'm not saying the throw makes that much difference overall. Just that the explanations coming out of Case are strange. If the throw position could damage sieves in a Case machine, it would also damage them in a NH machine, and I've seen plenty of NH machines set to the other position (and plenty on the corn beans position too).

As for the spacers on Case machines, the thing is when in "corn/beans" position, the spacer block isn't even needed, so they could just leave it off at the factory instead of turning them around. Also the blocks on my 7230 aren't labeled on either side.

Anyway I find it all rather puzzling. We changed the position on one machine, but are leaving the other machine in the default for comparison, and report if we find anything.

EDIT: Sieve damage definitely will occur if you switch the block position without also switching the top part of the hanger to the other side of the mounting rail! Run a complete stroke by hand also.
 

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I heard comments like that as well. I also heard it would destroy my sieves if I switched the blocks. What doesn't make sense to me is if the blocks were designed for the NH machines and the not the CIH, how can that be when the cleaning systems are identical. I even pulled up the parts manuals online and compared part numbers for the cleaning system components, everything I checked had the same parts number.
I would have to agree, unfortunately my memory isn’t what it used to be and I’m afraid I may have that part of the story wrong. Maybe they weren’t designed specifically for a NH but there was some reason that involved NH I’m sure. Wish I could remember.

The only difference I can think of is between the Belgian units and the Grand Island units. I thought the Belgian ones were designed to have the option of a longer throw in the sieve that wasn’t available from GI. Maybe they’re all like that now but I think at one time that was the case. I’m not an expert on yellow paint though.

I’m also unsure why CNH would be advising against this practice if there was a chance it worked. I’d also have to admit that stranger things have certainly happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
Yeah with Canola and very small seeds like grasses and alfalfa, we need all the help we can get in the cleaning system. I'll post my findings comparing the two setups, if any.
 

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I’m glad to hear you have two machines so you can do a side-by-side comparison @torriem I think that’s the only way we are going to know what difference it makes. I look forward to hearing what your results are.
 

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Was harvesting mustard with our 9240 and couldn’t keep mustard from going out the back, or the tailings from plugging. First year with this unit, never had a problem with our 7120. Found this thread with spacer blocks and mine was in corn position. Switched it and didn’t notice any difference. Harvested wheat, peas and lentils in the corn position prior to doing mustard, and was happy with the sample. Still haven’t solved my tailings and throwing over issue. I was running small wire concave in the front and large wires in the back. Worked fine on the 7120. Apparently the 9240 calls for slotted hole on the rears. Going to try these next, along with kit that replaces the fingers at the rear of the sieves, when it comes in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #109 · (Edited)
Could be lots of things at play here. I've seen things like that in canola too. Sometimes when things get really dry, it's hard to separate the seeds from the MOG. Playing with rotor settings sometimes helps. I wonder if the adjustable vanes on the new machines can help with this. In situations like this I'm not sure there are any sieve settings that won't lose grain. But would be interesting to see what the 50 series automatic settings come up with. We've had situations where when set identically (and calibrated identically), one machine is making a nice sample with low loss, and the other machine can't get a clean sample to save its life. So many variables.

You might want to try the concave leveling and centering procedure that Rod talked about earlier in this topic (and I asked about it in in another topic just a few days ago). That could make some difference in how it's threshing and separating. I'm a bit skeptical that it would make much difference but I did do it to both our machines this week so we'll see if we notice anything.
 

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Yeah, I tried playing with the rear half of the vanes and didn’t have any luck. They were all in the mid position, except the very rear one was in the fast, not sure why that was changed. They talked about an upgrade to make the vanes remotely adjustable for 240 series combines, but you’d have to replace the rotor cage to make it compatible. Maybe an upgrade to do when it’s time to replace that. I’ll have to have a closer look at the rotor adjustments they were talking about. Definitely very dry, and it doesn’t help that it’s a light crop too.
 

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Yes, the "level & centre" of the concaves will certainly not hurt to get right for canola ......but it will certainly benefit in cereal crops etc.
I've never had much luck playing with the vanes, except when I played with rotor bars & spiral modules.
That said, it will be extremely interesting to see what "HarvestCommand" does to vane position in dry canola ....... in a standard machine.

My front vanes remain in mid position over concaves as well as the first two over separation area are in the mid position. Last rear two vanes (or three - is there 5 rear vanes?) are in fast position. I also have two vanes installed on the RHS over #3 module. These were initially installed to keep tough rice "rolls" moving. But I've left them in for all crops & all conditions.
Also note here, I have an ST rotor & have 10 degree bars over the concave section & 28 degree spiked bars over the separation section. This gives very good thrashing ability & I want a material speed change giving higher centrifugal forces & therefore greater separation affect via the degree change in rotor bars, & the RHS vanes.
We always have hot/dry/brittle canola harvest conditions & it's a real challenge sometimes.
If you haven't done so already, install the cover plates on top of the first section of the rotor cage ..... both sides. These holes are for corn & beans. Not that useful for canola or cereals.
Also install the cover plate over the section in front of the chopper floor. Between the rear of the rotor & the front of the chopper. It's slotted & again, it's designed for corn.
Concaves I use in hot/dry/brittle canola are: #1 helical. #2 LW with a third of a clip on cover strip, or just SW. #3 LSW .... sometimes with a third of a clip on cover strip. #4 spiral ... with a third of a clip on cover strip.
Concave about 20, rotor - don't be afraid to give it some RPM - around 550-600. Speed helps in creating higher centrifugal forces. From memory, fan about 800. Pre-cleaner .... not much wider than seed size. Top sieve ... about 12-13mm. Bottom sieve ... 6-10mm.
Really check those sieves for evenness of opening from side to side & then calibrate them.
TOP SIEVE REAR CURTAIN IS A MUST HAVE INSTALLED!
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
We find we just run the pre-cleaner right closed in canola; even one notch was too much for us. Also note that the pre-cleaner adjuster could be way out, so adjust the link to make sure it really is closed when you are on the first notch. Otherwise you could think it's closed or set tight, when it could be open 1/4". Visually check the spacing of course to make sure you really are only open the width of a seed at most. The pre-cleaner falls directly into the clean grain elevator, so it won't get that second pass in the cleaning system. Also we had our linkage fall off a couple of times leading to a huge pile of chaff in the tank; those little ball joints are none too robust. I made my own little half clevises on one machine.
 

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Ok, I saw the tool rod made, so I just need to go through the procedure of checking and adjusting it. You say it’s in the operators manual? Also, I will have to check to see if the curtain is in there as well. Taking a day or two off as it actually rained for once.
 

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Oh yeah, I was going to ask, if rotor and concave adjustment is out, will it overload one side of the pre sieve? That’s the one thing I keep noticing. When I stop, and disengage the rotor, then go back and check, the left hand side of the pre sieve and the top sieve are still covered in an inch of trash. Almost seems like it’s loading one side more than the other. Doesn’t matter what adjustments I make to concaves or rotor speed. I was hoping that by switching #3 and 4 modules from large wire to slotted hole, that the straw would get to the chopper sooner and get thrown out the back instead of overloading the tailings. Not sure if this will help the throwing over. The sample is nice and clean, but I can’t keep the seeds from going out the back. I do have the solid plate in front of the stationary knives on the chopper.
 

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We find we just run the pre-cleaner right closed in canola; even one notch was too much for us. Also note that the pre-cleaner adjuster could be way out, so adjust the link to make sure it really is closed when you are on the first notch. Otherwise you could think it's closed or set tight, when it could be open 1/4". Visually check the spacing of course to make sure you really are only open the width of a seed at most. The pre-cleaner falls directly into the clean grain elevator, so it won't get that second pass in the cleaning system. Also we had our linkage fall off a couple of times leading to a huge pile of chaff in the tank; those little ball joints are none too robust. I made my own little half clevises on one machine.
Yes, there's usually lots of slack in those pre-cleaner linkages. Some people say: "it's in the third notch" ...... which is basically meaningless as all machines are a bit different & all the linkage bits here are not exactly Swiss watch quality!

I just measure from the side with the sieve tools I had made up for fine tuning & calibration.
 

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Oh yeah, I was going to ask, if rotor and concave adjustment is out, will it overload one side of the pre sieve? That’s the one thing I keep noticing. When I stop, and disengage the rotor, then go back and check, the left hand side of the pre sieve and the top sieve are still covered in an inch of trash. Almost seems like it’s loading one side more than the other. Doesn’t matter what adjustments I make to concaves or rotor speed. I was hoping that by switching #3 and 4 modules from large wire to slotted hole, that the straw would get to the chopper sooner and get thrown out the back instead of overloading the tailings. Not sure if this will help the throwing over. The sample is nice and clean, but I can’t keep the seeds from going out the back. I do have the solid plate in front of the stationary knives on the chopper.
Most definitely it will ....... & the uneven overload will run all the way through to the spreader & out in the paddock!

As many people know, there's no single "silver bullet" to gain performance out of machines. The manufactures have them (usually) pretty right for most crops & more specifically for their "target crop". JD & Case have corn & beans in their eyes, brain & machine design. A few checks, adjustments & calibrations, plus some probable after-market bits & pieces ....... then the whole shebang comes together for a much better grain machine performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
Ok, I saw the tool rod made, so I just need to go through the procedure of checking and adjusting it. You say it’s in the operators manual? Also, I will have to check to see if the curtain is in there as well. Taking a day or two off as it actually rained for once.
Yes the leveling procedure is in the manual.

I'm waiting on the curtains myself. If I'm not mistaken for small grains it's part number 47622785. Had got the other part number, but it turned out to be for corn sieves; the cutouts for the linkage was wrong. Hopefully they'll get them in next week.
 

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Thanks for sending a link to the adjustment procedure rod put on. Looks like my rain day is gonna involve some more work. Thanks also for the part number for the curtain. Did they come standard on some machines? I haven’t checked mine yet. I see your in southern Alberta, where abouts? I’m guessing it’ll take them the same amount of time to order he curtains for me, as I’m in the same general area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #120 ·
I'm in the Taber area. Neither our 7230 nor 7240 came with these curtains. Apparently some machines did for a while in the 40 series? Maybe standard on the 50? Haven't looked at a lot of machines to find out. I'm not sure they will make that much difference to your mustard issues, though, as it sounds like a threshing issue (over-threshing due to dry conditions). But it should make the sieves a bit easier to adjust under normal circumstances.

I'm also waiting for two new top sieve modules. One of mine was damaged by a chopper tooth, the other was damaged by my own stupidity (I backed over it with my truck). Sigh.

Rod's post also reminded me that I think the chopper floor cover plate is worn through on one machine. Must check.
 
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