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aim command pro

16K views 43 replies 15 participants last post by  meyers 
#1 ·
was wondering how much money you guys estimate you're saving with aim command pro? if nozzels shut off automaticallyh can you just drive back and forth without touching anything at headlands?
 
#5 ·
At the end of the day you went to field with 160 acre of chem when done boxes are empty ,no diff section shut of or aim or aim pro or whatever half mill $$$ tool you buy.
Until you start cutting back on rate you have a system that has a payback.
So aim pro has a benefit over aut-section shutoff more sections more saving , therefor nozzle GPS shutof control will aid minimal benefit unless you like to spray your field in circle's
 
#8 ·
I don't see it as going to save you a lot on chemical because if it took 4 jugs to spray a field you will probably still use the 4 jugs to spray the field but with aim command pro you will be applying it more precisely with less water. You will have less over applying when doing short ground where you are crossing into sprayed ground a lot and it has turn compensation so if you have lots of turns to make while spraying you don't under apply on one side and over apply on the other reducing chemical burn and making sure that weeds get the correct amount to kill them and not cause them to become tolerant to the spray. I know it is hard to measure the damage by under and over applying but if you have big square fields then the original aim command is probably for you but if you have lots of slews and other obstacles to go around aim command pro is a no brainer.
 
#14 ·
Interesting ! Looks like a lot of guys who have sprayed a huge amount that are dead set against aim pro or pinpoint. You are the type of guys I love to demo sprayers to. I always end up learning something from the customer, and I always appreciate the educated feedback.

On to the facts:

I have sold, installed and serviced a huge amount of aim pro/pinpoint machines. I keep detailed logs on my demo sprayers as to how much chem they are actually using. The sprayers are 120 foot, 7 section case machines.

The aimpro/ pinpoint monitor gives you a direct readout from the flow meter as to how much chem has been applied to each field. This is recorded. It also gives you a readout of what a sprayer with 7 section control would use in that same field. This is also recorded. The difference is what the savings are.

Most sprayers auto swath or accuboom control is set to 99 percent. It has to be set this way to minimize skips. This means when 1 percent of each section gets into an unapplied area, the entire section turns on. The largest section on a case 120 7 section boom is 14 nozzles. This means that if even 1 of those nozzles gets into an unapplied area, the other 13 nozzles have to spray and overlap. Multiply this over lap by 7 sections over an entire field. This is where the 4 to 14 percent over lap savings comes in. 72 section control versus 7 section control.

The guys who have perfectly square fields with no obstacles or reasons to turn and slow down won't see near as much overlap savings. In my area we have sloughs, pivots, canals, wells, acreages, hills, uneven fence lines, trees and shelter belts.

Other things aim pro/ pinpoint can do :
Individual nozzle remote control to check tips.
Individual nozzle monitoring from the cab that automatically alerts you if a solenoid is plugged
The ability to vary the duty cycle of individual nozzles. Can put on more chem behind the tires in dusty conditions, or more chem on the outside fence rows, all without stealing chem from the rest of the boom.
Turn compensation. The duty cycle of the solenoids is varied through the turns, so each solenoid puts on the correct Gpm to hold the correct gpa.
Pressure control. The pressure is constant no matter what your speed is. This gives you consistent droplet size and accurate application.

Still waiting for someone to post what 4 to 14 percent of their chem bill is:)
 
#17 ·
The largest section on a case 120 7 section boom is 14 nozzles.
Shoulda bought a Nitro.........I got 10 sections:D Sorry couldn't resist....Oh yeah I don't need the computer to tell me when I have a nozzle plugged cause I can see them all!:)

We have a lot of point rows and pivots and I can tell you right now that I'm so close to spraying exactly what the GPS'ed acres are in each field that you would never pay for the AIM system. It's no where near 4% let alone 14%, but I also don't spray in circles either.

I also agree with SW, AI nozzles are far superior at controlling drift than AIM is.
 
#16 ·
Mike, where you say " multiply this overlap by 7 sections over an entire field" doesn't make sense. Only one section would be overlapping at any given time... So you need to divide your 4 to 14% by 7.;)

I too can put more on in the wheel tracks, just turn from yellow...to purple...to blue...:)

I agree spraying in circles around pivots would have benefit but for most of us it would never pay. I have run AIM before and seen a demo of Pinpoint so I know what I speak of. I have never been as happy as since I went back to AI nozzles. If you could run them on AIM I would consider going back, but for me getting a good kill on the weeds and not on the neighbor's crop is paramount!

Chem bill is over 200K.:eek:
 
#18 ·
Interesting.

When you enter or exit an uneven headland, each one of your 7 sections has to turn on and off at a different time, hence the times 7. With aim pro, the nozzles all turn on at the exact right time. The math has been done and the numbers don't lie. 4 to 14 percent savings over a 7 section auto control system.

When you put on larger tips behind your wheels, you are stealing chemical from the rest of the tips. Your gpm for the rest of the boom is actually lower than it should be, which means your gpa is wrong. You would have to increase the gpa in your rate controller to get an accurate kill. Interesting strategy when the goal is an accurate weed kill across the entire boom.

Would be interested in the method you used to determine how you had more drift and less coverage on an aim machine vs non aim.
 
#23 ·
Even if the whole sprayer overlapped 20' at the end of every pass and there was 50% overlap on 120' sprayer at end of a quarter section that would be only about 5% total. I would consider that a very poorly adjusted sprayer! Most of the time it can be set to shut off within 5' of entering headland, except after I get it back from RME and they have tampered with my settings...

It is easy to adjust rate higher to adjust for larger nozzles, just use a calculator. I rarely do that except maybe glyphosate when its dusty. At the speeds I spray at I haven't really had an issue.

Method for determining drift would be watching it. Also easy to determine coverage with some water sensitive paper, some chemicals can be seen on the leaf too. Ultimately chemical failures with AIM were the nail in the coffin. Ask a seasoned chem rep what system has the most claims, they almost always say AIM.

I do appreciate all your help on here Mike but we just don't agree on this one. Case sprayer is good enough it doesn't need AIM.;)
 
#24 ·
80 tips x $7=$560 x 5 sets = $3920

Not bad for 5 sets of ceramic tipped nozzles. Mind you I did buy them at a short line westward parts dealer. If you had to buy those same Lechler tips at RME they would run you over $18 apiece!!! So that may throw your numbers off a bit.;)
 
#26 ·
We get it SW and cfsi that the AIM system does not work for you guys but saying the system is not worth the money is not true! Had AIM for 2 years now and would love to go to PRO but don't like the cost of new sprayer. In our area we are lucky if we can get three passes on a half section without have to go around something. Also a lot of water runs and wash outs that we need to slow to 5-8 mph so explain how a AI tip would compensate for this! It wont and that is a fact! That is why we went aim in the first place sick of over and under applying. Pro would be nice for the turn compensation because that is one place I see problems is in the corners where overlaps are there year after year, and as Mike said 72 section control would be nice.
 
#35 ·
There was a set of teejet xr 110 04 and 03 and a twin teejet 04 (not sure exact tip). I needed something bigger so I got an 06 xr.

Looked like the turbo twin jet was a good nozzle, tried an 05 for 5 to 6 gallon work. Then I tried an 08 twin for reglone, not sure what series it is
 
#38 ·
I kinda get a kick out of this thread, seeing everyone trying to justify their point of view some interesting facts from both sides but clearly each one of us knows what works for our operations so with that said after running a deere, case with pinpoint and a SP365 NH at the end of the say I will take my pinpoint system strictly for the fact I always have uniform coverage all the time, at 5 mph or 15, I still need to select proper Nozzles but when you have Hills and the machine is starting to power out like the gutless NH you appreciate the ability to have the same pressure all the time keeping droplet size atleast somewhat close to what I want, in the hills with AI nozzles on the NH I powers out slows you down to 8 mph thus dropping the pressure to the point that your tips look like dribbling drinks over 120 feet........ What kind of coverage is that? Don't get me wrong I ran conventional spray systems for many years they work well but after running with aim and aim pro or pinpoint I won't go back and to the guys whining about the extra 30k price out both machines, we bought a fully loaded 4430 with pinpoint for less than a 4940 deere with Nothing on it so all this talk about extra money can be negotiated to a point albeit but look on your farm and tell me you haven't spent some money frivolously on worse things........ I can buy a Brandt supercharged auger for 5 grand and pull it around by hand which I did, how many of you opted out and added the other 9500 for mover and clutches etc???
 
#40 ·
I will take my pinpoint system strictly for the fact I always have uniform coverage all the time, at 5 mph or 15, I still need to select proper Nozzles but when you have Hills and the machine is starting to power out like the gutless NH you appreciate the ability to have the same pressure all the time keeping droplet size atleast somewhat close to what I want, in the hills with AI nozzles on the NH I powers out slows you down to 8 mph thus dropping the pressure to the point that your tips look like dribbling drinks over 120 feet........ What kind of coverage is that?
Good point cnh007. There is value to the guys that vary speed quite a bit because AIM/Pinpoint can keep you on-rate and keep a pattern. That being said my Lechlers can(and do) run well from 30-100psi. For me that is enough of a variation to keep a proper pattern as I vary my speed. Just need to have the right size in there for the job....but I do have 5 sets.:)
 
#41 ·
I personally like the wilger mr better they leave a very nice pattern at any pressure I basically use to tips MR 04 for synthetic products 4 to 10 gals if I am spraying at 10 gals. I am usually dedicating wheat at 11 Mph at 5 gals you can run up to 21 mph and still have only 40 lbs psi I use wilger sr06 for other products from 7.5 up to 15 gals my friend uses turbo ts in his newholland with sharp shooter I am not sure what they are but he seems to like them there is a guy at Capstain but I can't remember his name but he will tell you I found between the BS he tells he is informative. A large mistake people make with these systems is thinking one tip will work for everything which is not true and the other is to run to large of a tip say a 08 to spray 5 gals I personally like to see the nozzle opened more then closed .
 
#44 ·
Thanks wetfoot.
I agree, one tip won't do it all.

I had to ask about the turbo twin jets, I bought a set of 05s for 5 gal work. They may be an improvement over the teejets that were on the spayer, but I cannot get satisfactory mist control from them at any pressure. As one of my friends told me about the aim he runs, but I don't see it...... You do. And after watching the difference and seeing the results on over 20k acres, aim/sharpshooter/pinpoint whatever electronic controlled pulsating system it may be, it won't be on my next sprayer.
I had one nozzle plugged on this sprayer in the time I operated it, had 13 solenoids that quit and needed attention:eek:
Does sharpshooter work? Yes it does. It is better than using just a flat fan nozzle, the positive nozzle shutoff is nice. There are advantages, and I see them. There are also disadvantages, which for me, just don't work.

It's not the cost of the system that bothers me at all, it's just isn't effective enough for me.

As one farmer observed from the cab, and the advantage of this system is what? Holly crap, look at the drift... He was seeing exactly what I see, and he saw what my other nozzles would do. Then he asks why would anybody want this....
 
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