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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having fun playing in the mud and rain and 100% humidity this spring. First year with an air drill, and still figuring out the limitations. FC 3450 TBT with Concord 4710 5 run double shoot, dutch paired row. Having constant fertilizer plugging troubles with openers and distributors on the outside wings, looking like the distributor plugs first, then opener follows. Trying to find out why only the outer towers? All primary hoses are equal length, hoses from outer meters are going to the outer towers. Does condensation accumulate at the walls of the tanks and end up on the outer runs? Could it be moisture from rain getting in the openers when folded up? I have established that you don't turn even a modest curve with these openers in the ground when it is at all muddy, but they still plug.

The grain distributors appear to be flexicoil, plastic, clip on lids, and the hoses are inserted inside the outlets, and have given no trouble at all. All of the fertilizer distributors are steel, hoses fit over the tubes( big restriction). Would the plastic style of distributors make a big difference? Does the routing of the primaries have any effect on the moisture coming out of the air stream and causing troubles?

Trouble was worst with S in the blend, it was really fine, almost like powder, much better without.

The dutch openers work really well in dry conditions, but sure don't like mud, or quackgrass roots, or corners, what are the best openers for muddy conditions?

What conditions do other operators run in, or stop to avoid these issues, quit at a certain humidity? Is more fan speed better or worse when the air is humid( more air = more moisture)

I can go through a lot with this set up before getting stuck, but in really heavy thick almost dry soil, the front casters will start bull dozing, and that is the end. Usually not in the wet spots, but part way up the slope. The staggered rubber tire packers work as planned in wet ground, the dual wheel TBT tank will go through anything, and the tractor is usually back onto dry ground by the time the drill gets to the wet spot. As an added bonus, I can actually back up if need be.

Agtron dual rate and blockage has performed very well, biggest issue has been the operator(me) doubting it, when set right, it will do exactly as promised. Full blockage on grain runs, but only 1 per fert tower, and it will pick up any plugged fert run. Not too impressed with sensor reliability, can the sensors be recalibrated or cleaned? Some are always reading/alarming high or low when there is no issue, I have disconnected some that give a constant error of needing cleaning, nothing works, are they beyond repair?
 

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My suggestion is a system that increases the air temperature. They use these in Australia and they work well.

Blockage Prevention Systems

The openers plugging while turning corners is another issue, although the Dutch Universal Series with the gumbo style tip on it usually does pretty good in mud. The important thing is for the opener to be protected on the bottom and sides so that mud cannot work it's way into the seed opening.
 

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I was going to say the same thing. The Aussies put hydraulic oil coolers in front of their fans (to cool the oil from the fan motor return and lower humidity) and it is odd it hasn't caught on in North America. I am considering it for next year depending on what I do with a cart.

I am pretty sure I can build one for less that $2350USD (especially since I have 2 fans) but I am glad to see there is a company going to offer it as an option for us at least.
 

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Not sure this would help under such high humidity but
I think I remember hearing that if you run the fan(s) with no product for a few minutes on start up it may dry the system a bit.

Another factor is that while we are extorted on the price fertilizer is garbage now, the dust is unreal, I remember when they was no dust with fertilizer and some phosphate have a diesel smell to it, all in a dust control effort.
That was the good old days.:(
 

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Jvw what tips do you have on your Dutch openers. Hopefully they are the gumbo tips with the plate across the bottom. The secondary aerodynamic manifolds from Flexicoil that split the air stream inside the manifold with a plastic splitter v shaped thing really help keep the plugs and slim build up down. They are well worth the money if you do not have them on. If you are plugging run the fan speed high at 5300-5600 rpm. The air should be howling out of the fertilizer tubes if it things are set right. Are you plugging the seed boots or fertilizer tubes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Not sure what they call this opener, couldn't find a picture or name on the dutch website, it is 4 pieces. The tips are super eagle 3/4", fertilizer goes through the body of the opener in front of the shank. sealer plates are 4.5" wide and bolt on from the bottom, seed is through a y tube behind the shank.

The seed boots (Y tubes) never plug except if I attempt to back up in mud to get unstuck, only fertilizer is plugging.

The oil cooler sounds like an excellent idea, especially considering my tractor does not have one to start with, can't be that hard to build.
 

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Jvw I am not familiar with that opener. You should call Dutch to see if they can help you out. We use the universal series with the 3.5 inch gumbo tip. This year we have had some fertilizer runs plugging with the very wet conditions in our heavy clay soil.
 

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Some air drills run the center meter outlets to the farthest points on the tool bar, outer ones to the middle of the toolbar. The theory is that even though there should be even air distribution/resistance divided between all outlets there does seem to be more to the outside ones.

As for fertilizer quality, this may be the largest contributing factor, while we don't use dry S, our dry P is extremely dusty this year. And S seems to soak up humidity like a sponge.
 

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Jvw having ammonium sulphate in the blend makes the fertilizer turn to mush or slim at a much lower humidity level. About 10 years ago we tried seeding through the night on a humid night with ammonium sulphate in the blend. By morning our whole air system was so gummed up with fertilizer slim we spent the next day washing and cleaning it out. The newer flexicoil towers help a lot with this rather than the old towers that had a metal plate at the top that the fertilizer smashed against. The newer ones pretty well self clean because everything is so aerodynamic for the air flow.
 

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We tried to keep the cost as low as possible. Our product has a built in pressure relief in case of over pressurization of the system which adds some cost, but is an important feature to protect the rad. Also there is a swivel on the screen for easy cleaning and maintenance. All hoses and adapters are also included.
 

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I was going to say the same thing. The Aussies put hydraulic oil coolers in front of their fans (to cool the oil from the fan motor return and lower humidity) and it is odd it hasn't caught on in North America. I am considering it for next year depending on what I do with a cart.

I am pretty sure I can build one for less that $2350USD (especially since I have 2 fans) but I am glad to see there is a company going to offer it as an option for us at least.
On the JD 1790 we got this year (used), it has an oil cooler mounted on the CCS fan to help cool the oil. Not sure if this is factory or not.

Not sure this would help under such high humidity but
I think I remember hearing that if you run the fan(s) with no product for a few minutes on start up it may dry the system a bit.

Another factor is that while we are extorted on the price fertilizer is garbage now, the dust is unreal, I remember when they was no dust with fertilizer and some phosphate have a diesel smell to it, all in a dust control effort.
That was the good old days.:(
I remember reading in the 1790 JD planter book about letting the CCS fan run for 5mins or so to help dry the product or something to that effect, so you could be correct on that.
 

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Some air drills run the center meter outlets to the farthest points on the tool bar, outer ones to the middle of the toolbar. The theory is that even though there should be even air distribution/resistance divided between all outlets there does seem to be more to the outside ones.

As for fertilizer quality, this may be the largest contributing factor, while we don't use dry S, our dry P is extremely dusty this year. And S seems to soak up humidity like a sponge.
On my cart basically same cart as yours six run double shoot same openers....my out side rollers go to the center run. Two center ones go to outside...look for even slight kinked in main hoses to yor outside runs when I fold up mine will kink sometimes...I have also had small leaked on main hoses that would bleed off air but not usually leak product ...I have dragged my drill through wet spots this year that had my cart tires quite turning and gave all. Y quad cold do to keep it going and did not have problems with plugged fert

I also did not use my stupid air cart auger at all this year just used my batco field loader belt I think that did help on less dust ....good luck
 

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I run the same openers on my drill. Last year I could not keep the fertilizer openings from plugging. What I ended up doing was I shimmed the boot on the top bolt. This seemed to make it alot better. This year is even wetter, so I still plugged, but not that bad. Usually if I got the drill going backwards a bit, the outside might plug. If I keep everything going forward, it ran great.
 

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Airguard do you have a picture of your product mounted on the fan? I had the same issue as jvw except with a bourgault air seeder. The fertilizer we were using looked great. It was higher in sulfur, plus we got it in december, so it was cold coming out of the bin. The combination of the sulfur, temp of fert and humidity made seeding a nightmare. We finally floated on the product. Roughly how much would the air guard reduce the humidity? 50%? Might be interested in something like this.
 

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When you look at the amount of air going through the fans, I am wonderering if the oil cooler can even come lose to releasing enough heat to lower the humidity. How many BTU does this cooler put out?
 
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