Can a new machine be ordered without any display and be run simply by the rocker switches under the armrest and manual adjust of cleaning shoe? Seems there are a fair share of problems with using a touch screen to make adjustments and for general operation. Having to create an interface between a touch screen and general electrical controls causes a lot of complication and places for problems that are usually software oriented. Phantom movements of adjustments being the most common complaint as well as simple failure to execute commands. Touchscreen controls seem to make the electrical system enormously complicated and seems to be too high a price to pay for what it accomplishes? These complicated systems simply can't actually improve solid performance like proper machine design and mechanical reliability do.
Back to basics
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345 Posts
mrgrothen: I ask this same basic question at the factory training school a couple years ago, mainly concerning the yeild monitor crap. I told them if they would have just the standard bin extension, not the power fold crap, no auto steer ready stuff, no computer screen monitor they could cut $50,000 off the price. I was told that just a few of us would buy it as the majority of possible customers (age 25-40) demand all the latest toys. And that is exactly what they are, toys. All the above mentioned junk does not make the field yeild one bushel more of grain. I guess you and I have outlived our time!. Anytime you put electronics on you are guaranteeing a problem down the road. Guess that is why I still love to run my 1972 G.
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Well I'm only 36 and I would gladly give up all the "toys" well except AC of course! Like you said it would save alot of money on the price of a new machine and I would guess 80-90 percent of downtime is now electronic and very expensive to fix. I'm not stuck in the past, I do like some features when they are working, but there is just getting to be away to many things to go wrong. I also feel the resale value of machines is going to get worse because of all the problems.
I am not sure auto steer is in the 'toy' category, can run without it if it stuffs up but very nice when using it helps concentrate properly especially going over uneven ground.
But I must admit the other electronics are nice while working but do make me slightly nervous wondering how long they will continue to work.
But I must admit the other electronics are nice while working but do make me slightly nervous wondering how long they will continue to work.
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345 Posts
True the auto steer is nice, but not intergated into the combine electronics. I have a ez-steer system that cost in total less than Agco wants just for the antenna. A man 20 miles north of me bought a new S-77 in 2012 and just out of the blue it would turn a hard left. Once going down the road. Agco couldn't find the problem so last year he traded it off for a new S-78. Now someone will end up with that problem! If the ez-steer gives a hicup I can just lean the steering motor forward and go on. I sure would not want it wired into the combine system. Still with my cheap system it cost more than a new combine with header did in the late 1960's.
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This a total lie, because that is where they make their money, 5 dollars profit to 1 dollar of actual cost. I call BS..
I dare someone to build a "stripped" combine. Class 7 (most common class). And see how well it sells at 50k less then the top end model.. Bet they would sell a lot.
And don't get me started on "greaseable bearings". Make me a combine where every bearing is greaseable and comes with a standard Lincoln auto lube.
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I like my greasable bearings. Anytime I have to change one of the nongreasable, I install a greasable one. Nice to use a simple greasgun to see if they are taking grease properly. Brother always gives me **** because I grease too much. I always tell him I have yet to see a bearing pile up due to an abundance of grease. Cousin still has his dad's JD 55 combine and it still has all but one original greasable bearing, and that one they changed when they had to replace the beater shaft due to a loose sprocket, just because it was behind the main drive pulley.
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1,113 Posts
If I recall correctly, there isn't any analog gauges in the S series gleaners and the 9500 series MF, So if you get rid of the touch screen theres no way to see what your engine temp, oil pressure and the like are doing. I don't know why you couldn't adjust the combine from the rocker switches, but with out the monitor, your how are you going to know where your set?
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129 Posts
Here is my take on all this high tech stuff, who is going to buy them and be able to keep them going when they are 15 years old. I have a 20 year old machine that I have run for 3 years now. I have been able to fix everything on it with no special equipment. When these electronics get that old I would dread trying to keep them going. I for one will just keep what I have running for many many more years. In fact it may be the last combine I ever own unless it burns or something devastating happens.
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Sorry, but anyone who thinks that a yield monitor is a toy or luxery or anything else along those lines is not utilizing the data that it provides properly.
Autosteer, yield monitor, concave adjust from the cab, AHHC, field tacker, rotary beacons that come on when tank is full, these are all a must in my book. You want a stripped combine, order one that way. More power to you, but that is what you have when you go to sell or trade it. Like a pickup with manual locks and windows...
Autosteer, yield monitor, concave adjust from the cab, AHHC, field tacker, rotary beacons that come on when tank is full, these are all a must in my book. You want a stripped combine, order one that way. More power to you, but that is what you have when you go to sell or trade it. Like a pickup with manual locks and windows...
Its a tool, however the cost of that tool doesn't yet pencil out for me. Seat of my pants and mental yield maps don't add 10 grand in automation costs to a 30 grand combine.
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182 Posts
um....you go look
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I have to agree, especially sieves because they get crap trapped in there and there is no guarantee they are going to move to where you have them set. Maybe some combines have position sensors right on the last row but our New Hollands depend on the actuators to give information.
Electronics have their place but there are several examples of where they have gone way too far. They should be there to make operation of equipment simpler not more complex. If you have to spend an hour setting up your tractor to do a half hour job I'd send the engineers back to the drawing board. I often wonder how these superfarms setup their equipment and operators. I'm thinking they must have someone that knows what he/she is doing setup the machine's basics then throw a body in the operators seat and tell them not to touch anything but the ignition switch and go handle. Maybe give them a picture of what everything is supposed to look like and call them if it's not the same.
If manufacturers would take all the wing ding gizmo buttons and put them on a panel under a lockable lid and left only the basics out for operators that would help. They should also put cheat sheets with an explanation for all these little symbols for the buttons in this equipment. They have symbols that look like sewing machines, whips, toilets etc. that I have no idea what they actually do. In our combines there is a rocker switch with a picture of a combine and 1-2 on it, operators manual shows it and says "Not used"... Why is it there then?
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596 Posts
Look at reality though. There is comments of taking off $50,000 of features to make a base model and a deluxe model. You will probably get a $10,000 savings on a base model and probably drive up a deluxe model another $10,000. Then there would be more parts required to maintain to keep the different systems going and there are already enough threads about not maintaining parts for the machines currently offered. I have seen other equipment offered as a deluxe model and people wanted a base model because they didn't want all the features so the manufacturer obliged and provided a base, mid, and deluxe model but in the end it just drove up the price of all so no real savings.
There is a comment of the manufacturers making $5 for a $1 item. If the manufacturers produce a base model they will delete and make that same $5 for no extra investment. It is like ordering a new pickup and having them delete the box because you are going to put on a flatbed. They will have a box delete option which I have seen in the past from $500 to $750. But if you were to have to buy the box and tailgate they are sure going to charge you more than $750. They are in it to make money for themselves not for you so you may have saved some money but they aren't going to pass the full $50,000 on to you. You will be still be paying them to remove it for you.
I would be more worried about the emissions equipment that will be required on either a base model or deluxe model. We have encountered codes for issues that requires a computer and tech. It isn't like the auto world where there is a big network of dealers across the country to look at it. Some have hours to drive to get to a farm equipment dealer and I don't see it getting any better no matter what the brand so I agree electronics are going to be an issue down the road but I see the problem with the emissions electronics that are going to be on any model stripped down or not. A combine costs $400,000 plus. At some point of time it will be worth $0. How far will that be down the road and who is going to be that is stuck with the largest portion of that amount?
On the lighter side some of you sound like my dad. There were three things he didn't want in a vehicle because they were luxury and would break and only cause problems. He didn't want an automatic, power steering, or air conditioning. Let me tell you it was very hard for him to get rid of the last car that he had ordered that way years ago. The dealer thought he was crazy to order a car that way but my dad says they don't pencil out just to drive down the road because the car will go just fine without them. Technology keeps evolving whether you like it or not so enjoy the ride. Have a great day.
There is a comment of the manufacturers making $5 for a $1 item. If the manufacturers produce a base model they will delete and make that same $5 for no extra investment. It is like ordering a new pickup and having them delete the box because you are going to put on a flatbed. They will have a box delete option which I have seen in the past from $500 to $750. But if you were to have to buy the box and tailgate they are sure going to charge you more than $750. They are in it to make money for themselves not for you so you may have saved some money but they aren't going to pass the full $50,000 on to you. You will be still be paying them to remove it for you.
I would be more worried about the emissions equipment that will be required on either a base model or deluxe model. We have encountered codes for issues that requires a computer and tech. It isn't like the auto world where there is a big network of dealers across the country to look at it. Some have hours to drive to get to a farm equipment dealer and I don't see it getting any better no matter what the brand so I agree electronics are going to be an issue down the road but I see the problem with the emissions electronics that are going to be on any model stripped down or not. A combine costs $400,000 plus. At some point of time it will be worth $0. How far will that be down the road and who is going to be that is stuck with the largest portion of that amount?
On the lighter side some of you sound like my dad. There were three things he didn't want in a vehicle because they were luxury and would break and only cause problems. He didn't want an automatic, power steering, or air conditioning. Let me tell you it was very hard for him to get rid of the last car that he had ordered that way years ago. The dealer thought he was crazy to order a car that way but my dad says they don't pencil out just to drive down the road because the car will go just fine without them. Technology keeps evolving whether you like it or not so enjoy the ride. Have a great day.
the biggest problem with all the techno ,is that 10 years from now you will not be able to get any parts for the techno stuff. simply put the manufacturers will not even stock what they are currently sending out the door. the idea that we were all sold of overnight service has been long gone on most things, and if you can get it overnight there will be a steep delivery fee tacked on..when everything on my machine relies on a computer to allow it to run and work i have become obsolete....done deal no meal
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181 Posts
With all the new technology and the concerns surrounding it as it ages, hopefully the aftermarket combine (equipment) manufacturers will come up kits and parts to allow the removal of the computer operated systems. Basically turn these very expensive, well built machines into a long lasting piece of equipment.
The machines being built today are great mechanically but IMO very weak on the higher tech items. Computer operating systems that are hard to understand and difficult to navigate.
I think an after market "Back to Basics" kit for these new machines will be a hit once the warranty is off and problems start showing up.
The machines being built today are great mechanically but IMO very weak on the higher tech items. Computer operating systems that are hard to understand and difficult to navigate.
I think an after market "Back to Basics" kit for these new machines will be a hit once the warranty is off and problems start showing up.
x2On the lighter side some of you sound like my dad. There were three things he didn't want in a vehicle because they were luxury and would break and only cause problems. He didn't want an automatic, power steering, or air conditioning. Let me tell you it was very hard for him to get rid of the last car that he had ordered that way years ago. The dealer thought he was crazy to order a car that way but my dad says they don't pencil out just to drive down the road because the car will go just fine without them. Technology keeps evolving whether you like it or not so enjoy the ride. Have a great day.
I also don't agree that they will stop supporting their equipment. The same thing was probably said when they went from the manual crank on the operator "cabless" platform to adjust the concaves. Well its been a few years since those and I'm pretty sure you can get the electric motors, switches and actuators to make those work.
I also don't think there will be any aftermarket back to basic mods done on the newer equipment. The electronics are to intertwined into the machine and as mentioned earlier in this thread there are hardly if any analog gauges on these machines anymore. Everything has gone digital, sorry not saying I agree with the direction its going. I don't think its all just "toys" some maybe is but its here to stay.
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