[torriem]

With regard to emissions, depends on where they are selling but they may not have to follow the same rules. I remember talking to the Belarus guy at Ag in motion a few years ago and he mentioned that they dont have to worry about emissions as that only comes in when a certain number of units are sold. Below the threshold it's classified as a specialist machine and the therefore doesn't have to be follow the emissions stuff.

I believe Kubota also was able to put off Tier 4 Final for quite a while while they worked through their quota under the Tier 4 regs.

As we move into Tier 5 regulations set to come into force soon, I highly doubt the old quota system will continue on now that so many years have elapsed since Tier 4 final came into force. And the current Kirovets being sold by MTZ in north America is Tier 4 final.

Of course since the Big Tractor guys are buying engine units, they will already meet current requirements. Mining equipment has been on Tier 4F for a long time now.

 

[torriem]

As for a dealer network, if they are using purchased CAT equipment, I would think that any shop with CAT experience would be able to work on it.

Weren't Versatile guys having all kinds of problems trying to get CAT to do anything for them? I'd think shop rates at mining equipment repair shops would be much higher than ag. Not sure how likely a guy is to get support other than from a dealer network.

With those things in mind, I could see how the MSRP could be very competitive with the other major brands.

Yes you're right that modern CNC machines change the tooling costs dramatically, especially the laser machines for cutting the heavy plate steel. Still a lot of custom press-braking that has to happen, though. And jig and fixture making.

I have a neighbor that starting making his own very large 6-row potato harvesters. I'm not sure where the original design came from but they've tweaked and enhanced it over the years. They now make a new set of diggers every winter and sell off their previous year's units (a brilliant way to do it). I'm sure they've built the fixtures and jigs they need and most likely have the CNC tables for cutting the parts so the cost each year is pretty optimized. So heavy manufacturing can definitely be done on a small scale and be profitable and undercut the OEM competition.

 

[porky69]

When they say non-computerized they are talking about the ancillary systems....think stuff like heat/ac, auto-adjusting heated/cooled seats, fully integrated electronics systems.

Yes there are going to be computers on engine, transmission, steering(gps), hydraulics,etc. But they will be stand-alone systems.

If they went Cat for engine, they would probably buy a package with engine and transmission...both use the same Cat software which does diagnostics and settings. Or any Cat certified shop would be able to do it.

I envision the new Buds to be a lot like the latest refitted Buds. Big modern engine/transmission, hydraulics and steering but the rest will be very basic...mechanical gauges, manually controlled heat/ac, no pto option,etc.

 

[lanwickum]

Doesn't get much more direct than this. Taken from Williams Family Farm facebook page.

 

[Twix]

They need an 800 hp tractor. A 640 hp tractor is a waste of time. Everyone has that.

Something modular that can be split for shipping.

 

[torriem]

If they have a machine they can sell in March 2023, they've been doing a great job keeping this under wraps for the last couple of years. Will be interesting to see the finished product, which sounds to be nearing completion.

 

[glennw]

They need an 800 hp tractor. A 640 hp tractor is a waste of time. Everyone has that.

Something modular that can be split for shipping.

A C18 at 640 hp is far more than anyone else is currently making when they are playing with so much smaller displacement. Our 620 quad doesn't even come close to our 525 Challenger.

 

[Twix]

A C18 is good, but why not offer it at 750 HP?

 

[SouthernSK]

Maybe they can not source a tranny that will take the power?

 

[shmiffy]

What’s the Torque? Where the torque and horse power cross on the chart is what matters.

 

[Slip clutch]

Maybe it doesn't pertain to you guys 🤷‍♂️.
But case coming out with 650hp.
I would like 800 or better.

 

[shmiffy]

This big bud would kinda be like what Agco had. So it looks like Agco killed their 4wd with the v12

 

[bjtjjl]

Boost the c18 to 740hp and get rid of emissions once on farm.
They are building a scraper tractor first and foremost, hence the partnership with Rome, the ag ones will be extras in a way. There isn’t a tractor out there to handle 2 35 yard scrapers and last 10,000hrs.

 

[porky69]

There is no replacement for displacement.....Why not use a V12 Cat?


The graders I run at work are old Cat 24H (3412 V12 1647cu.in. set at 500hp) and newer 24M (C18 I6 1105cu.in. set at 533hp) models and are otherwise the same mechanically(many components are interchangeable) , neither one has EGR, DPF or anything else, the M's are electronic/joystick controlled and monitored/integrated where as the H's are mechanical(steering wheel and 2 handfuls of levers) and if I want some serious lugging power I will take the old school 24H any day.

The derated V12 has less horsepower but a way flatter torque curve. Plus it weighs a little more so you get more traction with the drive tires so it pushes better.


Even Cat must think this is the way to do it, the newest iteration the 24 grader has gone back to a 1648cu.in. V12, the C27 set at 535hp. Cat says result is 33% longer engine life compared to the C18 but more usable power, which I can attest is true.

 

[bjtjjl]

So that big V12 could produce way more Hp if wanted I assume. 7-800 hp ?

 

[CRToney]

A few points
C18 is a C15 with a different crank. Not that exotic of engine
TA22 trans is what is used in Versatile tractors and it mining equipment. I have not heard of any transmission failures in versatiles yet
Software: CATET isn’t as difficult to get as OEM software. You can buy a CATCOMM3 at your local cat dealer.
I’m not sure if Big Bud will have to do rollover tests like larger mfgs

buying off the shelf components would definitely save huge $ in R & D

LSW and IF tire technology is great. As good as tracks for compaction and traction. It’ll take up lots of room in the shed though. Doubt they’ll put a PTO on it for guys with carts.

Excellent opportunity for them. The market will be grateful for their efforts.

Cat engine and Cat trans no need for a gateway. The software better include hydraulic pump load into the transmission protection maps. This has been a problem for Agco and Versatile with TA22 trans.
Newer Deere 9620rx had provision for ”extra” 50hp when remotes were engaged. (Up to 150hp can be used with high flow hydraulics)

Oops more than a few points. Competition is good.

 

[bjtjjl]

They told me the trans they are using is quit different than the one versy uses 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[CRToney]

They told me the trans they are using is quit different than the one versy uses 🤷🏼‍♂️

I guess I’ll have to call and find out the details. I don‘t like knowing the facts. Thanks Brent

 

[TripleTriangle]

Seems to me 640 is a little lacking... I thought it was s'pose to be more powerful than the 1100 horse 747? Regardless, is it just me or does the 3d model look like a Kirovets with outboard planetaries?

 

[shmiffy]

Seems to me 640 is a little lacking... I thought it was s'pose to be more powerful than the 1100 horse 747? Regardless, is it just me or does the 3d model look like a Kirovets with outboard planetaries?

640 horse power with 2550 ft/lbs of torque at that rpm. Torque is what pulls horse power goes