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Discussion Starter #1
On the 9L combines, Has anyone tried plugging the hot exhaust line from the EGR unit to the Exhaust pipe? If you did, how did it run with the EGR bypassed? Better fuel economy? Cooler?

Also, anyone tried blocking off the V.V.turbo , so that it would act like a normal turbo with maximum vane contact with moving air at all times? results?
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

I haven't heard of anyone attempting this yet but it would obviously have some benefits. Why don't you give it a try? The worst that can happen is the ecu rejects it and you have to switch it back to stock.

Not sure I would bother with the turbo but the EGR is worth bypassing. My '08 Dodge 3500 with 6.7 Cummins gets 1.5 mpg better with the EGR valve unplugged.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Thank you Tech.

I was reading on the diesel truck forum that they were having lots of problems with the EGR plugging with soot, and back feeding that crapola back into the intake side for the motor to reinjest, and some had seen anti-freeze leaking from the EGR cooler causing motor problems when it was sucked back into the intake. One truck mechanic wrote the first thing he did on a new truck coming in for complaints of power and fuel economy was to plug the anti-freeze cooler lines to the EGR and block the hot exhaust from entering it.
He claimed that helped motor performance considerably.

As far as the V.V.Turbo, isn't it a simple disconnect to lock the vanes into the full boost position at all times?

I don't like anything but fresh, clean, cool air going into my motor intake; and for sure want that turbo ready to spool up fully and instantly when the exhaust flow bumps it.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

I have always on my trucks unpluged the egr, and installed a block off plate. No real differences just a very slight increase in acceleration.

I know the DPF (diesel particulate filters) are really going to hinder the fuel economy on these engines.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

When the egr valve opens the ecu is going to see that the temperature of the cooled exhaust gas doesn't change. It will open up the egr valve wide open and then probably go into a derate mode when it still doesn't change.
When the cooled EGR system is working correctly a max amount of 10% cooled exhaust is all that is being recycled. I wouldn't mess with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Well, just asking about bypassing the Deere EGR before I need to. I've never owned a Deere with a EGR system or V.V. turbo. Lots to learn I guess. 10% exhaust does seems like is a lot to recirculate, especially during full throttle. They used to say it takes 9000 gallons of air to burn 1 gallon of fuel in a diesel. So that means the EGR now throws in 900 gallons of crap air also mixed in. I'd just as soon have NONE.

Cummins ISX motor shops are having nightmares with their
EGR valves, but of course it is a truck application, not a combine. One mechanic says he puts a solid plug in the intake line to block it. Others disconnect the control wire. There must be a work around on that second temp sensor throwing a code when the EGR doesn't warm up. Maybe Cummins doesn't use a back-up temp EGT check system on their EGR's?

Read all about it:
http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckin....th eir-egr.html

Happy Trails guys, and thanks for the responses!
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

I'm sure I will be possible, but just like the on highway application the aftermarket guys will have to figure out the electronic side as well as the simple unplugging or blocking of componets. Just like a DPF delete on a truck, it's easy to take a sawzall and cut the filter off, but tricking the o2 sensors and telling the ECM not to go into regen mode is the hard part. As far as the VGT, u would want to leave the vanes functional. Variable geometry turbochargers typically have larger Exhaust housings and compressor wheels spec wise than standard turbos, and need the vgt functionality to maintain acceptable spool up. Figuring all the performance and emmisions system problems out on the off road side could be an extremely lucrative opportunity for some company.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Wouldn't suggest block off the egr or turbo, probably would just cause the engine to derate. if you want better fuel econnomy a chip is by far the best choice.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

I spoke with Alex at PDQ Performance about reprogramming the ecm to eliminate emissions and he said that it's quite expensive to hack the factory emissions systems. If there was demand that pay back their costs, but costs are very high. To hack the ford 6.0 he said it cost $350,000. So if we get enough people to put up the money.....
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

The only way that the egr could be removed is with a ecu reflash wish i might get equiped to do. We have been doing this in road application for years. By the way alering émission devices is illegal contry wide.

But theres alot of ways to gain power and effiency on those engines. Timming, fuel quantity, egr, fuel curve. Thats why power boxes are not the power solution.
Heavy equipment tuning is a pretty good business considering the complexity that they are now and the price difference between models.

Now i'm available to get a programmer to reflash deere ecu with out taking the ecu out of the machine.

That means more power and less trouble for a good price.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Well, so tell me more. I simply want to put an aluminum plug in the hot exhaust hose going to the EGR, then disable the sensor with a cheap Radio Shack resistor connected in parallel, so, the ECM doesn't throw a code and go to default. You got any idea on the ohm's rating of the resistor I need to fool the sensor circuit? I'm NOT talking major motor or EPA compliance componet removal. Just make the 9L run free and clear of trying to breathe 10% of it's own soot.

You got a plan?
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Well with most recent engine management its not as easy like it used to be.on a old 6.5l gm or a tdi that you unplug it and the only thing it would do is a engine code. It will trow you in derate if you try to block or unplug the egr, the egr derate is 20% the good way of doing is by reflashing the ecu. 30k to alter egr maps that BS it will cost me alot to get all the required software and hardware dont get me wrong but me to sell you a software to tune your machine would be much cheaper. I'm trying to get a programmer for customer to use to flash their tractor them self. The way it works is the customer reads their ecu,sends the flash over email, i modify to costumer requirement and send back the flash, customer loads it to the loader over usb and reflash the modified software to the machine.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Naaah, I am not interested in reprogramming the ECM. That's way over kill for what I want. I'm wanting a temporary exhaust gas block, and a resistor to trick the EGR sensor so the ECM is happy with the motor functions even with the bypass in place.

Thanks anyway, but I am probably going to go another direction.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

The bottom line is, there is no way to efficiently bypass and/or evade the latest emission control technology used on today's Tier III and newer diesel engines and keep it cost effective.

Today's technology is designed to be smart. Self diagnostics look for foreign and/or evasive technology and tampering and de-rates the engine as a result, often requiring dealer intervention to reset/resolve.

Plug-n-play chips and programmers are going to get much more complicated and expensive (if not impossible) to use in the near future, as will aftermarket exhaust systems. You'll probably be better off not tampering with engines used in new trucks, tractors, combines, etc. if you want to keep your costs low and maintain warranty.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

greenpower. try a reistat from radio shack to dial in the resistance you need. might work on changing fuel temps for more power to. hint, hint.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Here is just one of the problems you could run in to. Turbo turbine inlet temperature is not a measured value. This value is calculated by the Engine Control Unit (ECU). This calculation is made from inputs from the following sensors:

EGR Temperature Sensor

Fresh Air Temperature Sensor

Mixed Air Temperature Sensor.

Manifold Air Pressure

If one of these sensors fail, the sensor may send a false signal to the ECU that one of these input values is incorrect. The ECU will then calculate the exhaust temperature to be extremely high and 001180.00 or 001180.16 code will become active. It may also throw a 001569.31 code and derate the engine as part of the engine protection feature in the engine software
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

My thoughts on the temp sensor. Take it out, or buy another one depending on how much they cost. Find some where you can crank it up to 900-1000 degrees and while you are heating it up hook an ohm meter on it. Take a few measurements at certain temperatures and then depending on how hot it gets, which could be determined with an infrared temp gun, you have your resistance.

Or you could take the long way around, which requires cutting your wiring harness. But you could use a multi-meter to determine the voltage across the sensor, the current going into or out of the sensor and from there Resistance = Voltage / Current.

Just some ideas.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Wow, some pretty ignorant thinking on a lot of other forums. How about we all go back to carburetors.

Honestly, learn everyone needs to learn some thermodynamics before hacking emissions equipment.

Example, most of the best BSFC recorded at Nebraska are on EGR or SCR engines. Reflective of the improved adiabatic efficiencies of these engines.

The answer is, NO, you cannot improve upon the fuel economies of these engines, the best thing you could to is by a chip and derate the engine you your not blowing through fuel to get through every slug.

Keep the engine clean - inside and out - and you will never have a more fuel efficient engine.
 

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Re: Blocking off emmission equipment on new 9L mot

Hmmm..

Well my brothers 04 Ford with the 6.0 got better milage than his 7.3 and it had an EGR. Then we disconnected the EGR because we don't like the idea of an engine eating it's own poop and it averages 1.4mpg better with the EGR disconnected. How do you explain that? It also has more low end and produces less black smoke.

These newer EGR engines are getting better fuel economy than their predecessors, but just think how much better they could do if they didn't have to eat 10% of their own poop.

The point in adding the exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber is to reduce the maximum temperature during combustion. But, the lower the combustion temperature the less expansion of the gasses you get. So in order to get the same net force on top of the piston you need to add more fuel to get a larger, cooler reaction inside the cylinder. More fuel, same power = less efficient. Maybe you are the one that needs to learn about thermodynamics.

On a side note, while I'm thinking of it, there are more problems associated with the EGR than just the reduction in fuel efficiency. With the introduction of exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber you are also introducing soot back into the engine, water vapor, acids and other contaminates that will increase the acidity of the engine oil, cause more piston and cylinder wall wear, more bearing wear and reduced oil life. Through the cooler less NOx producing combustion cycle the engine will also produce more unburnt hydrocarbons, PARTICULATES, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. So your little line of keep the engine clean inside and out, doesn’t hold true if you have an EGR on it. You are adding contaminants directly into the intake of the engine, making it not clean on the inside – inside the combustion chamber or the oil pan- and this poor combustion leads to it being not clean on the outside –out the pipe- and this is the problem that lead the emissions train to another series of issues that were addressed with the DPF. Then if you have followed on road engines the DPF lead to another group of problems for the consumer with increasing oil levels, decreased oil life, decreasing fuel economy, decreased satisfaction and more money out of pocket.

So. Dr.Farmer. Go back and learn thermodynamics, if you already have once do it again because obviously you missed something. Learn a little mechanical knowledge because obviously you have no clue how an engine even runs. Also, if you are going to go busting into a conversation and call people ignorant, you better know who your audience is.
 
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