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cat man,
I was at a couple of Bourgault disk drills the last couple of weeks and the Airguard Seed Brakes make a big difference in getting the seed down to the bottom of the trench. Another thing that helped a lot was to increase the downpressure on the disk if you can. This reduced the kickback quite a bit and least got the seed in the ground. The seed brakes reduced the variability from about 3/4" to 1/8".

haystack,
We also have a new cap that helps a lot with dust getting on the drill. It redirects it back down to the ground. It was originally designed for Australia to keep the rain out when they are seeding. I do have a few guys using it in Canada that are happy with how it works. Just so you know.

RainGuard Exhaust Port Cap
 

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Discussion Starter #264
Thank you for the info airguard

I ran 650lbs all season for that reason. It seemed anything less I did start to see some kickback and more seeds on top. In my conditions 650lbs seemed to be the number that worked. It kept the disk in the ground but not to excessive to start eating parts.

Your new cap looks interesting. If anyone has these please comment on them.
 

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haystack,
We also have a new cap that helps a lot with dust getting on the drill. It redirects it back down to the ground. It was originally designed for Australia to keep the rain out when they are seeding. I do have a few guys using it in Canada that are happy with how it works. Just so you know.

RainGuard Exhaust Port Cap
The dust isn't a deal breaker as far as I'm concerened. It does look like the rain cap is a good idea that may help a bit with the dust as well as its intended reason. I usually get the drill so muddy once in a while that the fireman that's around there cleans it up.

From past experience with individual row monitors, I'm convinced that in many situations row to row delivery is more even on most air drills with airspeeds a nice bit above the minimum amount to prevent hose plugging. Which is another reason that i like the Airgaurds.
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I'm not positive yet, but I think these seed brakes have to come off next year if not before. Too much internal buildup breaking loose and plugging the drops to suit me for a machine that has to cover these acres.
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Discussion Starter #269


I'm not positive yet, but I think these seed brakes have to come off next year if not before. Too much internal buildup breaking loose and plugging the drops to suit me for a machine that has to cover these acres.
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Sounds just like my last experience with air diffusers on my previous drill. My last set was a different brand than yours, but function in the same way. (I'm sure some have improved since than). This is why I resisted installing them on the 3710. I had plugged drops also, another 144 hose clamps, pulled out hoses, clamps crushed to tight, lots of fertilizer corrosion, more issues than it was worth, and things to go wrong causing down time when its GO TIME! I took them all off my last drill and sold them.

We're all after precision and perfection, but it can't come at the expense of getting the crop in late, due to downtime.

I feel your frustration Haystack. Nothing worse than being out of the tractor screwing with the drill when the suns shining and the ground is dry and the calender is ticking away. On those nice days I like to keep the wheels turning. Hard to get anything done if your turning circles starting over again and again.
 

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haystack: I will admit that the humidity and starter/innoculant is our biggest issue to deal with. We are testing out some new plastics for the exhaust port to see if we can improve on the current design and reduce this plugging risk. To be honest I think that the ultimate solution for this is the Blockage Prevention system. This eliminates that issue completely by heating the air stream up. We had customers this spring running in the rain, 24hrs, with a completely dry air system. I think that the combination of the rad and a snorkel kit that draws air from the top of the cart will fix this issue.

http://www.airguardproducts.com/Results/Testimonials/
 

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Discussion Starter #271
haystack: I will admit that the humidity and starter/innoculant is our biggest issue to deal with. We are testing out some new plastics for the exhaust port to see if we can improve on the current design and reduce this plugging risk. To be honest I think that the ultimate solution for this is the Blockage Prevention system. This eliminates that issue completely by heating the air stream up. We had customers this spring running in the rain, 24hrs, with a completely dry air system. I think that the combination of the rad and a snorkel kit that draws air from the top of the cart will fix this issue.

Testimonials/Gallery
Airgaurd

Can you post a pic of this snorkel kit you mention. I checked your products on your webpage but can not find it.

Is the snorkel for those Ausies so they can seed under water?:27:
 

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Discussion Starter #272 (Edited)
Here is an actual test of the Bourgault meter system, bulk delivery and air distribution system.




The first pic: a wet valley showing cart tracks and direction of travel. If you look in the distance you will see a series of 8 flags. far right marks the RH end of drill Far left marks the LH side of drill. There are three flags on the LH side of cart tracks and three flags on RH side of cart tracks. These six flags mark my sample rows.


The second pic: The 8 flags marking the start of the sample site.


Third pic: 14" of row measure showing plant count. (If you look closely you will still see red treated wheat on top the ground from the 3710 disk drill, actual stand loss due to large seed boot not being pointed at the furrow was 12%. I had estimated around 10% earlier.)


Here is the test to determine how uneven Bourgaults bulk distribution system really is. This is a 60' bourgault tool bar with a modified air kit.
The field is 300 acres and this test is done in the middle of the field starting in a wet valley and going at an uphill climb with the LH wing on the slight downward hill slope. I marked three rows on the LH and RH side of cart tracks, This would be one sample row from each secondary manifold, to take plant counts within 14" of that row. I recorded plant counts on a note pad. I then moved the flags 40' down the row and replicated that 10 times. I recorded all plant counts each time I moved the flags. I then added them all together and divided by 10 to get an average. L1 would be LH wing tip R6 would be RH wing tip. Here is the results:
L1: (longest primary on LH side) 40
L2: 42
L3: (shortest primary on LH side) 41.5
R4: (shortest primary on RH side) 40
R5: 42
R6: (longest primary on RH side) 41.5


Yes there is a 5% variable between manifolds but I see nothing related to hose length. LH side of drill (L1-L3) average is 41.16. RH side of drill (R4-R5) average is 41.16. center of drill (L3 and L4) average is 40.75. End wing tip (L1 and R6) average 40.75.


I am very happy with even distribution. In fact center of drill to wing tips is BANG ON!


Here is the particulars: Product in seed row varied from 240lbs-280lbs at this test sight. Seed did not vary, just fertilizer. ground speed 4.2mph. fan speed 5200-5400 rpms.


Conclusion: The original air kit on this drill sucked. I was plugging hoses all the time being plugged with product. This season I looked at the air kit as a fluid system rather than and air velocity system. Think of the plumbing under your kitchen sink. You have a dip in you sink drain called a P-TRAP. This dip causes water to sit in the dip blocking air (sewer gas) from flowing though the lines. Now think of your air kit as your sewer drain and your seed and fertilizer as water, and your fan wind as the sewer gas. If you have a dip in the line it will sit with seed and fertilizer reducing air flow causing less air to flow by and diverting product suspended in airstream to lines that have greater air flow and less resistance. Therefor proving the theory of hose routing and angle of decline having a greater effect than hose length of equal distribution. I do have dimpled primaries and secondary manifold tubes. All hoses on drill are cut as short as F*****G possible, and ran as the crow flies across the drill. When openers are down there are no dips in the lines. If you were to pour a 5 gal bucket of water down the primary manifold it would all run out. Hose plugging is now eliminated.


In my opinion Bourgault is capable of equally distributing product on a 60' toolbar if set up correctly. The bulk metering is simple. And Simple = less down time. I don't think the metering system needs to be overly complex to fix something that is simply working. If you can get accurate results with simplicity, simplicity will win with the farmer that has 14 days to keep it running to get the crop in timely. I am an owner/operator and simply stating what is growing in my field right now. This is my honest opinion, and real test. Believe me if I find something wrong I am not afraid to tell you guys. If you don't believe me read my 3710 review!


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Discussion Starter #274
I can see where drawing air from up higher above the soil surface would be beneficial. Especially if you have damp wet muddy soil conditions. The air closer to the ground has got to have more water in it. I can see your radiator and snorkel should help in damp wet conditions.

If we have dry soil conditions where you have no mud on the packer wheels at all anywhere then it seems to be less of a problem with buildup.
 

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Discussion Starter #275 (Edited)
I had one of those "now what the heck happened here" moments from the sprayer cab.

This is an area of my first pea field I planted this spring with the 3710. I made multiple passes starting at 500 psi down pressure and adjusting down pressure up 50 psi on each pass up to 800 lbs. I was looking for the least amount of seed on top the ground with not much packing pressure.

First pic was 600 lbs on the right 650 on the left
Second pic 650 lbs on the right 700 lbs on the left
Third pic is looking down on 600 psi down pressure
Fourth pic is looking down on 650 lbs.
Fifth-seventh pic is a set of sprayer tracks heading right down the 650lb pass 600 to the right 700 to the left
Eighth pic is a view from a distance the 650 lbs pass stands out even from far away.


Having correct down pressure is important. I can clearly see that even from a distance. The plant stand for me in my soils here was the best around 650 lbs down pressure. Less pressure had way to much seed on top the ground. And more than that pressed seed rows to tight and just lifted drill frame in the air.
 

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A picture of reseeded canola, June 1., 3.6lbs/ac, couldn't ask for a nicer stand. Seeded with a 3710, 60', 10", 6550ST. The drill just clocked over 34000 ac with original discs, boots, cleaner wheels.
Some of the cleaner wheel bearings are starting to fail....will replace them this fall. Bushings in the 4 point linkage are slightly worn but not enough to warrant replacing them. I ran 20 backswept prototype seedboots that needed a bit of refining but after I liked them....just learned that BG is not taking them to production :(
 

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1st picture is the original boot
2nd picture is the new backswept boot
3rd picture is the new backswept boot from the other side showing how far back it exits from the disc...i was very skeptical of this at first but I do kind of like it now and with the modification it doesn't plug anymore in wet soil. BG has told me that they didn't see enough of an improvement over their current boot so they will just stick with it. The original boots that I am still running aren't nearly as good as these prototype ones however i have not run the boots from last year.
 

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Discussion Starter #279
GM

Did you notice if the back swept boot you were using placed more of the seed in the bottom of the furrow? Less on top of the ground?
 

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We tried some -6 of those swept back boots as well and we were not that impressed. They were in tractor tracks and we felt they left to many seeds on ground especially in wetter conditions. We will be going back to originals for next spring
 
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