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now banning conservative free speech at Universities accross the USA

Whats that country song...back when a screw was a screw, the wind was all that blew....love that song!
Infringement of the 1st amendment should not be tolerated in a free society no matter which side it favors. I'm curious where your information is coming from. When I was a University student I didn't witness any banning. And I'm only a couple years out.

The song is Back When by Tim McGraw. I was a fan of his when I was in high school.


Then what are you trying to do? Why are all the non-believers still keeping this thread going when it was headed for the archives? Think about that.

SouthernSK is actually showing you a great deal of respect by telling the truth from the Bible straight-up. He isn't sugar-coating it like so many do nowadays. His concern is for your(and others) eternal destination.

I wouldn't be scared of God but the alternative is not very appealing at all.:wink:
I think all here would agree that having this discussion now is better than having it on a deathbed. Although, many would probably think it bad taste if non believers were seeking the deathbed deconversions of a religious people.
With all matters impacting ETERNITY I think things should be thought about and discussed. I happen to think that no sentient part of me will be around that long but I enjoy the exploration. If I am wrong about that I would hope that through discussions like this I would be shown how it could be that the thinking part of me will keep going for eternity.

To butcher a quote from Unforgiven: Appealin's got nothing to do with it.

The truth cares not for how warm and fuzzy we feel inside. The choice to worship a deity or not depends on your idea of that being. Lets say Barack Obama is the supreme overlord of the world. Many people disagree with what he stands for and his policies. So even if he does exist and is the actual overlord of earth you are not obliged to worship him. Even if he commands it. Even if he can convict you of thought crime. Oh but he gives us free healthcare, cellphones, and laws to show us how to act! What would we do without him? He could talk all the talk he wants about how his laws and morality is correct but if he attacks another country and orders that everyone in the country be killed I would doubt based on his actions that he in fact is in possession of absolute morality/truth.
 

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Infringement of the 1st amendment should not be tolerated in a free society no matter which side it favors. I'm curious where your information is coming from. When I was a University student I didn't witness any banning. And I'm only a couple years out.
agreed....it's one thing to disagree with what is said, but to call for the silence and bannings is not good no mater which side your on!

I read it in Yahoo news...seems like several time per week, but if I understand it correctly, yahoo news is "directed", so if you haven't shown interest in articles, it doesn't direct like ones to you.....The Trump has had his fair share of people trying to silence him also! I also try to read "http://behindtheblack.com/" he is a conservative who's love is space, but posts interesting links about many things and posts them to his blog.

To be completely fair, I probably shound't have said "conservatives", but as of late, that seems to be who is targeted....not that it maters who is the target!
 

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Charming!
Y`know, that`s a lot like the barbaric, mentally unstable, bloodthirsty, evil, chauvinistic, female fearing, female disrespecting, I`m a male and can`t keep it in my pants attitude you would find in an Islamic State instruction book!
Strange! You would almost swear it had been written by mortal man! Hmm!
And....at this point.....I find myself actually finding an appreciation for the past president, Mr. Clinton. He kept getting hung up on the definition of "is".......I hate that it actually does start to mater.

And, just for clarification, if there wasn't so much debate about many bible topics, there wouldn't be so many different religions that spawn from....basically the same bible. Is there even a count as to the number of different christian religions let alone the other "old testament" religions? do you believe they all think those words mean the same thing? Which basically takes a person back to faith.

I mean, even in your comic, the first two missing links were "homos" no wonder they are missing:eek::38:
edit #2: maybe it was the fact that he walked around erect all time, and the woman took advantage of him!:sFun_rofl:

cheers!

edit: If I don't get some likes on this one from both sides...at least for tryin to be funny, I will be disapointed!
 

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And, just for clarification, if there wasn't so much debate about many bible topics, there wouldn't be so many different religions that spawn from....basically the same bible. Is there even a count as to the number of different christian religions let alone the other "old testament" religions? do you believe they all think those words mean the same thing? Which basically takes a person back to faith.
Yep. This is something else that is problematic. God never commands things directly. Instead he does it through a human intermediary acting in his name. Same with the writing of his book. It comes down to interpretation. And faith in that interpretation. Convincing somebody there is a god is one thing. Showing which one it is seems to be mostly determined by geography.
 

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Yep. This is something else that is problematic. God never commands things directly. Instead he does it through a human intermediary acting in his name. Same with the writing of his book. It comes down to interpretation. And faith in that interpretation. Convincing somebody there is a god is one thing. Showing which one it is seems to be mostly determined by geography.
I could be wrong, but believe that, at least in the Bible, god does talk directly to some. a couple that I am sure about are Moses, and Abraham...but I'm sure there are more!
 

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And....at this point.....I find myself actually finding an appreciation for the past president, Mr. Clinton. He kept getting hung up on the definition of "is".......I hate that it actually does start to mater.

And, just for clarification, if there wasn't so much debate about many bible topics, there wouldn't be so many different religions that spawn from....basically the same bible. Is there even a count as to the number of different christian religions let alone the other "old testament" religions? do you believe they all think those words mean the same thing? Which basically takes a person back to faith.
Christian religion,....Christian Branches & Denominations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
 

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I hadn't planned to contribute more to this forum but after reading last number of pages Ill add a bit. Earlier articles mentioned that there isn't evidence in this world of God or Jesus and if He is real why doesn't He show Himself like He did to Jesus' 12 disciples. I mentioned ealier about seeing God in nature, human and animal life, etc. etc. etc. Real clear evidence of a God is the power He gives a sincere born again Christian. Stephen [a deacon in early church soon after time of Christ] when he was being killed for his faith begged God to forgive those who killed him. In the last 2000 years many Christians have been persecuted and killed for their faith and book called Martyrs Mirror has accounts of Christians singing praise to God and forgiving those who tortured and burned them at the stake. This kind of love and forgiveness is not possible of human strength. It takes a higher power. This evidence of God was real 2000 years ago and is real today. I just finished reading a book called, 'In Search of Home' by Harvey Yoder. It is true story from our day of what the power of Gods love can do when a family becomes Christians and has to flee for their lives in Kyrgyzstan. A few pages back one article listed a number of Old Testament characters or happenings. I don't think we understand any better today then Abraham did back then why God would ask him to sacrifice Isaac but think a bit what kind of faith Abraham must have had to have immediately listened to God. Isaac must have had strong faith in God too otherwise as a young man I'm sure he could have over powered or ran away from his dad. I don't know but I imagine Abraham thought that God would raise Isaac back to life because God had promised many descendants to Abraham. Abraham and Isaacs obedience to God is evidence of God Himself. When I read story of Jephthah my heart aches for the man when you think about how his vow cost his daughters life. I don't think we should criticize Bible or God because of it. Its too bad he made vow and it obvious in that era a vow was a vow. Maybe a lot less children would suffer disappointments if more people today thought of marriage vows that way and less broken homes. I don't think we should blame God for evil in Old Testament times or today. The devil is real and he hates God and he hates the human race and want to take the human race to **** with him.
 

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I hadn't planned to contribute more to this forum but after reading last number of pages Ill add a bit. Earlier articles mentioned that there isn't evidence in this world of God or Jesus and if He is real why doesn't He show Himself like He did to Jesus' 12 disciples. I mentioned ealier about seeing God in nature, human and animal life, etc. etc. etc. Real clear evidence of a God is the power He gives a sincere born again Christian. Stephen [a deacon in early church soon after time of Christ] when he was being killed for his faith begged God to forgive those who killed him. In the last 2000 years many Christians have been persecuted and killed for their faith and book called Martyrs Mirror has accounts of Christians singing praise to God and forgiving those who tortured and burned them at the stake. This kind of love and forgiveness is not possible of human strength. It takes a higher power. This evidence of God was real 2000 years ago and is real today. I just finished reading a book called, 'In Search of Home' by Harvey Yoder. It is true story from our day of what the power of Gods love can do when a family becomes Christians and has to flee for their lives in Kyrgyzstan. A few pages back one article listed a number of Old Testament characters or happenings. I don't think we understand any better today then Abraham did back then why God would ask him to sacrifice Isaac but think a bit what kind of faith Abraham must have had to have immediately listened to God. Isaac must have had strong faith in God too otherwise as a young man I'm sure he could have over powered or ran away from his dad. I don't know but I imagine Abraham thought that God would raise Isaac back to life because God had promised many descendants to Abraham. Abraham and Isaacs obedience to God is evidence of God Himself. When I read story of Jephthah my heart aches for the man when you think about how his vow cost his daughters life. I don't think we should criticize Bible or God because of it. Its too bad he made vow and it obvious in that era a vow was a vow. Maybe a lot less children would suffer disappointments if more people today thought of marriage vows that way and less broken homes. I don't think we should blame God for evil in Old Testament times or today. The devil is real and he hates God and he hates the human race and want to take the human race to **** with him.
Just a quick question because you said your heart ached for the man who had to kill his daughter.

Here is the scenario.
Your neighbour made a vow with God that if something good were to happen he would kill the first person he sees when he gets home and his daughter comes out to meet him. He keeps his vow to God and kills her. How would you react. He is a man of his word. He is apparently a good man because he believes a vow is a vow so he has to do it. He might even claim that God told him to. You have no way of knowing if God really did talk to him or not.

Would you believe and feel for a man living today as you do one who lived many years ago?


I just want you to look at things from a different perspective.
 

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I hadn't planned to contribute more to this forum but after reading last number of pages Ill add a bit. Earlier articles mentioned that there isn't evidence in this world of God or Jesus and if He is real why doesn't He show Himself like He did to Jesus' 12 disciples. I mentioned ealier about seeing God in nature, human and animal life, etc. etc. etc. Real clear evidence of a God is the power He gives a sincere born again Christian. Stephen [a deacon in early church soon after time of Christ] when he was being killed for his faith begged God to forgive those who killed him. In the last 2000 years many Christians have been persecuted and killed for their faith and book called Martyrs Mirror has accounts of Christians singing praise to God and forgiving those who tortured and burned them at the stake. This kind of love and forgiveness is not possible of human strength. It takes a higher power. This evidence of God was real 2000 years ago and is real today. I just finished reading a book called, 'In Search of Home' by Harvey Yoder. It is true story from our day of what the power of Gods love can do when a family becomes Christians and has to flee for their lives in Kyrgyzstan. A few pages back one article listed a number of Old Testament characters or happenings. I don't think we understand any better today then Abraham did back then why God would ask him to sacrifice Isaac but think a bit what kind of faith Abraham must have had to have immediately listened to God. Isaac must have had strong faith in God too otherwise as a young man I'm sure he could have over powered or ran away from his dad. I don't know but I imagine Abraham thought that God would raise Isaac back to life because God had promised many descendants to Abraham. Abraham and Isaacs obedience to God is evidence of God Himself. When I read story of Jephthah my heart aches for the man when you think about how his vow cost his daughters life. I don't think we should criticize Bible or God because of it. Its too bad he made vow and it obvious in that era a vow was a vow. Maybe a lot less children would suffer disappointments if more people today thought of marriage vows that way and less broken homes. I don't think we should blame God for evil in Old Testament times or today. The devil is real and he hates God and he hates the human race and want to take the human race to **** with him.
I'm not sure certainty and conviction through adversity means God is giving people strength. I think if somebody believes something strong enough they will persist even through torture and death. This includes religions and rebels and patriots. Forgiving their persecutors is probably unique to Christianity but if they don't do it they risk going to ****. It looses its substance when the threat of reward/punishment heaven/**** is over your head. It would be more impressive if they forgave their persecutors and they thought there was no punishment or reward coming as a result.

I've always wondered how Abraham knew it was God speaking in his head and not the devil. Then I wonder why he didn't seem to bat an eye at the request. He must have thought it was something his God would demand. When I believed I never questioned the party line that it was a test of his faith. It certainly was that. Looking at it from the outside it just seems capricious.

I'm glad vows can no longer oblige you to kill somebody unrelated to the vow. Does his daughter have no right to life? A vow is more important that somebody else's rights? Is his daughter his property to sacrifice? I'm glad we have moved past all of this.

God could have abolished slavery, made males and females equals, and laid out the universal human rights that we didn't come up with until the enlightenment but he didn't. What's the point of a revelation if things like this are left out?
 

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I rather doubt this will be a popular post but has anyone actually stopped to think that perhaps, just perhaps some of these peoples stories of what they have done and written into the bible are actually what today we would call crazy lunatics with some form of off balance brain activity, hearing voices in their head and acting out heinous acts and claiming some higher power told them to do it.

An example is a few years ago when that man in the greyhound bus snapped in his head and something sure told him it was the thing he should do, stab, decapitate and then start feeding on that dead mans body ... did God tell him to do that.

Other examples such as the mother who murders her children by whatever means, drowning them in the lake by purposely driving into it etc. Did God tell her to do that or perhaps was she depressed and clearly not thinking straight and in her own altered world in her head she thought she was doing good work ...

I think that's why some of us who don't have the bible holding a vice grip tight grasp to our own minds are attempting to point out that maybe its wise to pull off the blinders and actually look at and and think for yourselves when reading this book rather then following a blind faith non questioning mind set and in a way afraid to dare question this book.
 

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I rather doubt this will be a popular post but has anyone actually stopped to think that perhaps, just perhaps some of these peoples stories of what they have done and written into the bible are actually what today we would call crazy lunatics with some form of off balance brain activity, hearing voices in their head and acting out heinous acts and claiming some higher power told them to do it.

An example is a few years ago when that man in the greyhound bus snapped in his head and something sure told him it was the thing he should do, stab, decapitate and then start feeding on that dead mans body ... did God tell him to do that.

Other examples such as the mother who murders her children by whatever means, drowning them in the lake by purposely driving into it etc. Did God tell her to do that or perhaps was she depressed and clearly not thinking straight and in her own altered world in her head she thought she was doing good work ...

I think that's why some of us who don't have the bible holding a vice grip tight grasp to our own minds are attempting to point out that maybe its wise to pull off the blinders and actually look at and and think for yourselves when reading this book rather then following a blind faith non questioning mind set and in a way afraid to dare question this book.
I very good post. In some of these stories we are talking about murderers. Not murderers of their enemies but murderers of innocent people. This thread started out about people who's God apparently is telling them to bomb innocent people. They believe they are following God's plan also. I think everyone here thinks it is wrong though. Yet, in our own Bible it seems we are supposed to consider murderers of innocent people as having such great faith in God that they would even murder innocent people to honour their God. Isn't that a little bit hypocritical?
 

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Jephthahs vow is hard to understand. He vowed what ever he met when he came back home after the battle he would give to the Lord. It never says he killed his daughter. I have assumed that his vow is what he offered up to the Lord as a burnt offering which is where he went wrong. Jephthah in Judges 11:39 "...caried out his vow with her which he had vowed. She knew no man". I may be wrong but I have assumed he kept his vow by not giving his daughter to marriage.
 

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Jephthahs vow is hard to understand. He vowed what ever he met when he came back home after the battle he would give to the Lord. It never says he killed his daughter. I have assumed that his vow is what he offered up to the Lord as a burnt offering which is where he went wrong. Jephthah in Judges 11:39 "...caried out his vow with her which he had vowed. She knew no man". I may be wrong but I have assumed he kept his vow by not giving his daughter to marriage.
I don't doubt that we misunderstand a lot of the stories in the Bible. I still think it would be viewed very differently because it is written in the Bible rather than happening today. If your neighbor refused to let his daughter to get married today not many people would consider that to be a sign of his great faith. A sign of something yes, just not of great faith.

I have to say this.

I keep reading this thread with no intention of replying again. What I keep finding though is that I am having a hard time not responding to the very devoted religious posts. I find that the less religious, or even possibly anti-religious posts, are actually less offensive towards others in many ways. It's not at all how I expected to feel. I expected to feel the exact opposite. I am a firm believer in a higher power. I don't want to offend anyone but perhaps that is why Jesus was most often found among the leppers, prostitutes, and other people on the streets.

Edit to add: The last paragraph is not actually directed at you at all SouthernSk, I just tacked it on at the end. I apologize to you because it probably looks that way.
 

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I keep reading this thread with no intention of replying again. What I keep finding though is that I am having a hard time not responding to the very devoted religious posts. I find that the less religious, or even possibly anti-religious posts, are actually less offensive towards others in many ways. It's not at all how I expected to feel. I expected to feel the exact opposite. I am a firm believer in a higher power. I don't want to offend anyone but perhaps that is why Jesus was most often found among the leppers, prostitutes, and other people on the streets..
That is always the aim of a good debate, keep both sides thinking. I do the same with my Mom. It drives her crazy that I do not believe, and we get some pretty good debates going. Her pastor stopped me one day and commented that he has noticed that my Mom has really gained a good understanding of the bible in her conversations with him and he was just passing on his admiration about my Mom and her ability to know her bible very well. Every argument has it's good side, it just has to be kept civil. I would never loose a friendship over a disagreement of ideology. I would much rather be open to ridicule and debate and enjoy the conversation that ensues.
 

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That is always the aim of a good debate, keep both sides thinking. I do the same with my Mom. It drives her crazy that I do not believe, and we get some pretty good debates going. Her pastor stopped me one day and commented that he has noticed that my Mom has really gained a good understanding of the bible in her conversations with him and he was just passing on his admiration about my Mom and her ability to know her bible very well. Every argument has it's good side, it just has to be kept civil. I would never loose a friendship over a disagreement of ideology. I would much rather be open to ridicule and debate and enjoy the conversation that ensues.
Totally agree. And I would hesitate to say that people should not be deterred from replying every again, on the contrary, post. Agree, disagree, abstain. What is more important is being heard.

I have no intention of outwardly attacking a view be it from the most devout religious outset or the most atheist one, I will discuss points they might try to make, but in this I'm trying to play the ball rather than the man, if you take my meaning.

I can't say I blame anyone for their beliefs. I accept both paths equally. I can fully appreciate why people might choose to hold real beliefs in God, the world definitely makes more sense if you view it through their prism.

I remember a radio program I was listening to years ago, it was on radio 2 and it was a discussion about faith, I was at work, driving a tractor as it happens. I shall never forget the conversation as long as I live, it puts the spell of sadness in my heart even now.

A British man, had rung in on national radio and explained that his wife and 4 kids had all died in a housewife. He was a Doctor who was also Muslim. He explained that on that day when he had returned home late at night to find the emergency services and his entire family dead, he was totally struck dumb with shock and grief. The presenter asked how you might even begin to cope with and move on from such a life changing event. The man explained that he will never be able to understand it, however, he had accepted it, because it had been Gods will, and his family must now be in a better place. He basically understood it was part of Gods plan.

And so you have a highly educated man, a Doctor, who had chosen faith and had drawn comfort from it despite the most terrible blow life could possibly throw at a man.
There are so many people out there, who are out there simply living their lives with faith, who just want to go through life being happy and helping others be the same, that you realise actually religion is a very powerful and unifying thing, and it should never be obliquely mocked.
 

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Havinfun I appreciate the dialogue we have had. We have all learned from this thread. I do not claim for a minute to have all the answers. The pastor of our church that we attend always tells us to not believe what he says but to search the scriptures and read it for our selves to see if that is what it teaches. It has been good advise. When we read a passage for ourseleves and get the context of what it is saying it helps a lot with understanding. Unfortunately there are a lot of false teachings and teachers that teach there opinions and traditions rather than what the Word of God says.
 
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