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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am interested in the possibility of making a machine just for the purpose of harvesting principaly canola then peas, faba beans and lupins. This machine will not harvest cereals.

My donor machine is a 1688 with 4000 hours to trial with.

the modifications proposed are a posifeed roller a force feed feeder chain, a bison bean rotor, a precisions farm parts discharge beater and a gordon airjet chaffer with interchangeable elements for various crops.

The aim is to produce a machine that will not thresh but will only separate as most of the threshing in these crops happens in the feederhouse. the chaffer will also have less trash to deal with.

I am a john deere fan but have run a 2166 years ago. these older axial flows are attractive for their cheap price compared to sts second hand. Hopefully be able to produce a machine for contracting that is cheap and high capacity.I have a neighbour that has just purchased a 30000 acre property to add to his current 12000 acres. I would propose to contract harvest all his break crop at a cheap rate. If the donor machine worked well i would upgrade to a 2388 or two for a large contract.

I would appreciate those who have experience with these machines to give me your thoughts about the limitations of these machines and how to address these areas in the machine.


 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

ever try imageshack or photobucket both of wich you could just post a link or use the img code and paste them onto the message. Very easy once you get onto it. secondly Good luck but with this i hope the combine is cheap because wont these parts add up. and i know these old axil flows are bullet proof basically but isnt that a high houred machine to do custom work with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

the 1688 is just a test mule. I have some friends who are looking at retiring it from custom work this year and it already needs a new rotor. I have not yet been able to get the price of the rotor but the other parts should not cost the earth. if it works the purchase of a 2388 for the real job would be in order. where we are my CTS11 does 3300acres easily. so if the 2388 could be made to perform like a 480r cat or better it would make a cheap machine for this task at say 150k all up to do ~7000 acres which you could use around the clock because if you can get it in the machine and out of the machine the rotor should not have to work very hard by its design.

will follow your instructions hopefully tonight and get some photos posted, but i have to go and try the wheat for moisture now.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Though I cant help you with the accessories you need, putting together a purpose built machine is a grand idea.

I noticed while searching for combine accessories and patents, there are several fragile crop related items out there. I see a clean grain elevator designed for fragile crops built by "maust?". Might check that out, also they have an unloader that attaches below the vertical auger that is a belt conveyor for unloading said fragile crops. I dont have site for you, but here's just a couple pics I've found over time.
These are not my own pictures, but some I found online so give credit wherever it is due.




As far as the air-jet goes, I dont know how much experience you have with one, I have very little as each time I try it in my crops, it pluggs with straw spears. That said, I feel it can be fixed and when someone gets that issue fixed,...it will be a chaffer to reckon with. I feel it is a very good concept, just needs a bit of readjustment in the design.
I think Marvin built a canola specific screen set recently, so maybe he has the spearing reduced some in that crop. ?

IMO, if you are successful in your quest at building a crop specific machine, you will be houded to do custom work. No longer can one afford a 300,000 dollar machine to do mediocre work. If you can reduce grain damage and loss in those specific crops,...you'll have something that will be in demand. IMO.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Doorknob i talked to Marvin about the spearing because i'm considering an airjet. He's words were, "What are you looking in back there for? Look in the tank and look on the ground thats all that maters. Even if there are some spears in the holes there is still alot more open area then a standard chaffer." Is your spearing issue to the point that you are finding extra grain on the ground...Just curious. nig71 I think a puprose built machine is a great idea especially as you are focusing on some trickier crops. I wouldn't be very conserned about 4k hours on an Axial Flow, especially if that is just engine hours. We have 2 1480's with over 5000 engine hours that will still cut alot of wheat. We do tend to have more issues with them then our 2188, but we could have bought 7 1480's for the price of the 21...so its all a trade off. Let me know how it goes for you, i really hope it all works good. Also have you tried the force feed chain of posi feed roller? I'm currious how they work. To upload pictures just go to the reply page and there is a box above the message box labled Upload an image. Click Browse... and select the image from its location on your computer click ok and it will show up on the post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Do those elevators just handle more grain or are they more gentle? would like to target 30-40t/hour day and night with the bean rotor. my dad achieves 30 with a 9750 but only some hours of the day and i have been in the 480r doing 40 . the big questions are will the feeder house move this much crop up to the rotor and will the beater move it successfully away from the rotor and also will the material clear the spinner holes if it is not so broken up by the rotor.

I think if it does not thresh anything and the length of the rotor is just used to seperate the sieves will have less to deal with.

ps farmnflyboy got to open photo file and then it comes up int the window and the only way it uploads is if i click on host it then it loads the photo to the web after that it gives several options short link direct link and then others to post on blogs that are not combine forums. any ideas?
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

I think i usually go to attachment instead of upload image come to think of it. I have no experience with canola or edibles...i've only had the opportunity to harvest wheat and milo...that being said we can do 30+ tonnes an hour in wheat with our 2188 with a 30' 1010 w/bat reel, and standard rotor. We can go over 50 tonnes an hour in milo. Only mod is Dynomite Diesel extrude honed our injectors...which i highly recommend, best $300 i've spent. If we had a more ideal platform set up such as a draper or atleast a pickup reel we could go faster in both crops. Many times our limiting factor is feeding (which is why i'm interested in the force feeder and posi feed roller). 50bu/acre wheat we can cut at 6mph before it starts to bunch behind the cutter bar which causes the header to strip. If the mods you want to do work like they are claimed to you should be able to get that kind of volume through the machine. Hopefully someone with more experience in your crops can help you out though
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

the 1010 does not have as good a reputation as the jd930 front there is an axial flow in our wheatbelt that has the john deere front on it but it does not sound like that is your issue. Is it your knife or your knife speed that is causing it to strip? my 930 front that is very worn but i have cut 50bu wheat yesterday at Oh just looking 6mile per hour mine would be similar at 9km/h. my issue is material wrapping around the barrel.

would propose to use a tin front with an extended knife for pulses or even pushed canola or a draper with the auger kit on the 1688 and a pickup for rows. I think the major cost of this exersize would be a new pickup to fit the potential capacity of what we are doing with this machine.

Ps i have managed to get a link of the photo of the bean rotor inserted into the original post but it will not let me load any more up; just comes up with errors on the page.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Y agot the first part of the picture posting right. As soon as the picture loads and gives you the option that has "direct", highlight that address and copy it to clipboard.

Then minimize that window and come back here to the thread you are wanting to put the picture in.

Then look up at the icon bar just above the text window and you'll see an icon that looks like a picture in a frame.

Before you click on that picture icon, make sure your text curser is blinking below your text.

Then click on the picture icon.

Right where your curser was blinking, you'll see this appear


Put your curser right between the ][ and right click your mouse.

Click on paste from the menu.

Then move your curser away from the now inserted image address, like to the end of the sentence and hit enter. This will drop your curser one line and you can continue either with text or more pictures.

Then hit preview and see if everything looks good.

Then hit post reply.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

I used to think it was the knife but sometimes fiddling with the reel will get it to cut alot better. I'm pretty sure it is bottle necking at the feeder house which gets pushed down the line as the traffic jams up. If the auger is wrapping usually adusting the stripper plates closer will stop it, it did on our 1010. I've heard the 930's feed better, but if i make a change i will probably go to a draper. The pickup and draper could run you into some serious money, but if we can learn anything from my experience if you don't feed it smooth it will cost you performance.

Make sure also when you are changing everything out to put in the high tension rotor spring. Its only $43 and will save you alot of heart burn.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Here's a link to the Bison site.
http://bisonrotor.com/pictures.htm
It has lots of pictures. The guys on the Gleaner page have alot of experience with the Bison rotors. Much more than any other brand that I am aware of.

The Bison concaves for peas and edible beans is an interesting setup.

Here's alink to another rotor setup you might want to look at if you have'nt allready.
http://www.herle.ca/grapic5.htm

You can drop the spreaders some using a CIH part that makes them a push button quick coupled setup. Then you would have lots of room for any amount of material leaving the rotor.

The feederhouse without a rock trap can handle all the material a rotor can take. With a rock trap....they say the precision rock trap beater can really help.

As far as I know those elevators are for gentler handling of the easily split crop. I dont raise lupins or peas etc. but they tell me any farm split grain will be docked, but then the processor will purposely split the peas for soup. Go figure.

Here's another site for you to watch. http://www.kilemfg.com/ Next spring Ron may have a new product you might be interested in for peas and beans.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Those Maust elevators and conveyor setups are custom built about 20 miles from me. This area grows alot of navy and black beans. The elevator is a bucket elevator just like you would find at a grain setup. It does help with splits, however the big advantage is when there is alot of dirt on the roots and it isn't quite dry yet. The traditional paddles will eventually smear dirt on the walls of the elevators and plug the elevators. Then after you get the chain out you have to some how poke it out. Same with the unloading auger. We had trouble one day this fall trying to beat a rain and I had to completely disassemble the augers and tubes and power wash out the tubes. Yuck!!! Those custom elevators have just as much capacity as the stock elevator.

We had very good luck gaining capacity buy adding an AFX front end kit to our specialty rotor in our 1688. We went from 2.5 to 3.5 mph in pulled and windrowed beans under average conditions. I don't know how the Bison compares to a CNH AFX rotor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

thanks doorknob that helped a lot i hope the picture tells a story;i could not get it to upload another one but that was the main item. the 1688 has no rock trap ; they are rare to find over here. I think the bison bean concave would allow to much material down to the seives and overload them. When they talk beans i take it they mean soy as the only beans grown around here are faba beans.

farmnflyboy, the posifeed roller was invented for bushy crops like canola but when we had a 2166 we had a draper 1040 front and we had to put some steel plates in the front feed roller where the original drum was recessed, we then added some links in the feed chain and this brought the feed chain just a little bit further out to grab the material a little earlier.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Thank you arcticcatfarmer for that bit of information. I had no idea moiste dirt would build up like that in the elevators. Thanks for that new insight. Its great to see people making a fix like those elevators for such a problem.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Right on nig71. Looks like you have the pic posting mastered. I think the size of the picture is limited to 800x650 pixels or so, so that might limit you from uploading certain pictures untill you resize them.

I might be wrong about this, but I thought those Bison concaves were for edible beans. ? Its not so much the open design that lets material down to the chaffer as much as it is the aggressive retardation of a standard crossbar concave. The Bison concaves that I saw, but will recheck later, have a pipe transport vane on them and the concave itself is a very passive setup which would not break up the vines and pods much. ? Dunno, maybe I saw the wrong ones.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Nig71 I had seen the posi feed and i had to google the force feed feeder chain, i just hadn't heard any reports on them and i was currious how well they work for bushy crops.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Nig71 I think that the pulse header has a lot of pottential for the WA wheat belt, the only think that I can see that will need work is the front, would a 35ft flex draper be a good thing to get the lupins to flow and to harvest peas with lifters? The other think I would love to see/try in lupins is a reel I saw in the US that was a finger reel with a air set up in it like the old harvest air, cant think of how mad them though.

I worked out of Hyden in 2004 driving a cts for a farmer with peas and lupins and we droped the rock trap evert bin when using the pea plucker.

Madsnake
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

madsnake ; we are a little further south in esperance. I have a neighbour who was putting one of those reels last year for this season and it was probably on a flex for faba beans and peas. a lot of peas and lupins get swathed in our coastal area and it helps to keep rocks out of machines but a flex front has potential but for the lack of a rock trap.when i worked in alberta we used a flex for peas and i think one paddock i dropped the rock trap 4 times per box; very destructive on gear but our issues with rock is different as we have no glacial rock that keeps appearing every season and most farmers roll their rocks in. canola is the crop i am mostly thinking of though. my brother in law ran cat480r machines and most of his bussiness was canola;long hours to get the acres in.


The rotor facinates me as it would only seperate and not thrash. bulky material would not be compressed by the vanes.

What are edible beans like? is the rotor just designed to stop the split seed problem or are they a very brittle crop where overthrashing is an issue?

doorknob; the round vanes are interesting, are these the transitional vanes on the top of the housing as well as the shape of the concave bars? the photo i saw was of the bean concave.
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

Nig71 With the peas and lupins do they windrow them so the rows are side buy side so you can pick up 2 windrows at a time? We bale alote of hay droped with draper fronts like that then they just rake the 2 rows in to 1 when it is about ready to bale. In in the North Mallee to dry here for any thing but wheat and cireals aya.

Madsnake
 

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Re: building a 88 series to harvest just canola/pu

I don't have experience with the Bison bean rotor but we do have two Bison all-crop rotors that we thrash edible beans with. We love them and they do a great job of keeping splits to a minimum and handling tough conditions. I've looked at the Bison bean concaves too but we bought a set of concaves from our Case IH dealer that I think came from Loewen mfg that are slotted and completely smooth on the inside. Loewen calls them their "bean" concave and I'm sure they mean edible bean and you can see what they look like on Loewen's web site. We haven't run them yet but they should do great in the edibles we do in conjunction with the Bison. They are heavy built and have no cross bars for rocks to catch on and bend the concave. As far as the Bison bean concave being gentle on easy to thrash crops, I'm sure it is because that is the same design that Pickett mfg. uses for their rotors in their edible bean combines. Good luck!
 
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