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Discussion Starter #1
So over the yrs canola has been a target yield of 50. Too much moisture has been more yield reducing than being dry here. I have had 28bu due to excessive rain in the past and 58bu is my best average. Phosphate being the one obstacle capping me at 58. My 5710 is single shoot and to get past 30 actual Phos is unwise. This yr harvest is done and some NH3 down on my canola ground for 2021. Floating Phosphate is not ideal but with some trenchs with juice cultivator in the field I was debating floating on an additional 40 actual phos and sulfur fines and 15 of K then heavy harrowing it getting it in the ground somewhat. Got 130 lbs N on now and when soil tests come back I will be certain of what I need. Have heard of Avail being a good product for utilizing your phosphate to 75% from 25% from it getting tied up with calcium etc in the soil. Can anyone verify it isn't snake oil? Shooting for 70bu this yr if mother nature allows.
 

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The best solution as I see it would to be able to double shoot when seeding, plan B if you own your own Nh3 cultivator would be to put a air system on and shoot the P and S with the Nh3. Floating on the S is fine but broadcasting P seems inefficient as P does not travel much in the soil.
 

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I'm definitely skeptical of any claims about special phosphate formulations being "more available" in whatever form. That's what the Alpine guys say too. Show me the double blind studies and maybe I'll start to believe it. The only thing my phosphate trials have ever showed is that more phosphate is better, even when applied in the spring ahead of the crop, in any form. We apply it with the double shoot in the drill. We've been using either MESZ or 40-Rock phosphate with our canola fields in the last ten years and we feel like it is a good thing compared to regular 11-52 but can't say there's a yield bump. MES15 is also popular around here. We find the best way to bump our yields is to top dress extra N and S between cabbaging and bolting, but we do that with the pivot so that probably won't apply to you. We also use a fair amount of ESN (about 1/3) which we do feel makes a difference.
 

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If you are short on phophate the leaves turn Red... its good to see in autum here (winter canola)
 

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Years ago used 5710 and would single shoot 35lbs/a act P as well as pretty healthy dose of other juice(mostly S, N, some K) - IE over 200lbs/a down with seed - and really thought only once maybe saw seed burn with 3" openers. Our ground is typically cool,wet so think bit like yours. Had some very good yields doing this(75ish likely the highest) and was putting down either Fall applied NH3 or urea in big quantities - 100-150lbs act N. The last few yrs have changed everything as prices were lower and looking at lowering costs/a to match - big applications of biosul for multi yr performance, planter canola with very low seeding rates, low application of phosphate(alpine at 15-20l/a)), no fall applied N, relatively low rates of UAN sprayed on even before cabbage - timing this with rain events almost as much as growth stage. While have not hit the big yield yet, have to say that the relative yield vs costs is pretty attractive. I do believe the application of lower rates of N when the plant is really at stage to grow quickly is the most enlightening part of this. Have had tissue tests done twice and have not seen anything too alarming - I have bumped up amounts of P going down with cereals the year before and/or after. I will target 60bpa next yr and think I can do it with significantly less juice than what was using 10 years ago. Even though varieties of canola have changed over that same amount of time not sure that is such a big factor. My preference would be liberty linked varieties, but this next yr actually will be a different roundup variety than have ever used before - it seems that it hard to get too used to a particular variety with was fast as they changing them and pretty sure this not a good thing. I have consistently used same varieties for other crops and find the performance to be fine.
 

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To me in our soils it is all about background levels. Take the money from all the snake oils and put it into more 11-52. Band as much as you safely can with your cereals, or fall apps when necessary.
We have the same drill as you with 1” openers. Banding 50lb with cereals seems to be enough for us to increase background levels. We use 120lb of s15 in seed row canola. Only 40lb actual P in that but it is safe and has worked well for us.
 

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Used to think high soil test P made a big difference but have seen land test 3PPM yield exactly the same as our long term land testing 35. What you apply in the crop season can really make the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well every soil test ever done here Phosphate on the bar graph is terribly low. It's just our soil. I have been putting 125 N total with canola and 100 N on everything else for yrs. Last several yrs been putting 40 and even 50 actual phos with the seed on cereals. I have 2" openers now and have been at 30-35 phos on canola pushing levels in moist yrs. Soil tests always want more phos than I can apply with a 50 bu yield. I have put 25 of sulfur always with canola and know my sulfur levels aren't the limiting yield factor. With canola you need more than just lots of N. Potash is always just at the sufficient line but some with the seed always helps. You need a balance of everything and ensure your micro nutrients are there as well. I think floating Phos is marginally better than soil applying in a row. Read somewhere that Phos in a row can only get tied up so much with the surrounding soil only having so much calcium close to the fert. In a floated scenario it is exposed to everything and that is where Avail if it works would be beneficial. My field after juice application has 2 1/2' trenchs and if it got floated and I harrowed it the fert would mostly be below my canola when seeded. Option 2 is to turn my parked 40' morris drill into a fall juice applicator and fert applicator doing both 1 shot in fall. 7 1/2" spacing works the ground more than desired most yrs but would work. My Morris tank has a NH3 hitch behind. My other option is to put seed boots on my mid row banders and put my Morris cart behind my 5710 applying phos on midrows. My 5710 has a leading cart right now and my NH3 hitch could be rigged to pull the morris cart. My tractor has the ability to run 2 fans. Or of course just buy a bigger leading cart with double shoot using midrows. More payments lol!!
 

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How long before the phos desolves in soil?
We put 40 lbs actual last fall for canola this yr.on our test field..
Then 25 lbs with seed this spring....
Zero yield difference..
Trying micros with the phos next spring..
 

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Just cause your soil tests low doesn’t mean that’s the limiting factor. You need to tissue test and see what the levels are in the canola. It’s a a very good possibility that it’s low on phos. But you could need more sulphur to go along with your high rates of N. We have some fields that test high in phos but it’s tied up and not useable by the plants.
 

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I've maybe missed it, but how are you getting your S on? To me that is always the hardest thing to accomplish when using fall NH3.
Personally, I'd be comfortable with 50lb of 11-52 in seed row. It is the S and N that I don't like next to seed.
Of your 3 options described above, I'd go with the Morris drill, applying all fert one pass if you have time for that.
Once you master getting all you goodies on in the fall... you will be looking for a canola planter.
 

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How long before the phos desolves in soil?
We put 40 lbs actual last fall for canola this yr.on our test field..
Then 25 lbs with seed this spring....
Zero yield difference..
Trying micros with the phos next spring..
Not that long. Left side forgot to turn the starter on “test strip”. Right side 60lbs Phos. You probably have a lot of Phos in the bank and won’t see a dramatic difference like that. Just stop putting Phos down and see what happens!
36809829-AE39-45B1-A75B-DC7D3840254A.jpeg
 

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When we switched from broadcasting and incorporating the fertilizer blend ahead of the drill to putting it in the double shoot we noticed a huge difference in the early stages, much like the picture @joesixpack posted above. Clearly it looks to us like the plants get an early advantage with the fertilizer close by, N mostly, but also the P. Despite that, I'm not sure the yield in the fall was all that different between the half that was broadcast and the half that was from the drill double shoot application.
 

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Not that long. Left side forgot to turn the starter on “test strip”. Right side 60lbs Phos. You probably have a lot of Phos in the bank and won’t see a dramatic difference like that. Just stop putting Phos down and see what happens! View attachment 161081
That is quite the difference. Was that 60 lbs of 11-52 or 60 lbs of P2O5? With the seed or sidebanded?
 
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